Friday, February 29, 2008

Ervad Jimmy Doctor properly answers the doubts and controversy created by Mr Minoo Dumasia

From: TZML Admins
Date: Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 7:23 PM
Subject: Ervad Jimmy Doctor properly answers the doubts and
controversy created by Mr Minoo Dumasia
To: TZML <TraditionalZarathushtris@yahoogroups.com>


VERY GOOD POINTS MADE BY A YOUNG ERVAD WHO DEFENDS HIS RELIGION

HUMATA HUKHTA HAVARASHTA

28 Feb 2008

Dear Zarathushti humdins,

you will find this serialisation very interesting and inspiring.

It is from a young Ervad of our community who rises to defend his religion.

Sincerely
TZML Admins

From: Jimmy Doctor
Date: Feb 6, 2008 9:20 AM
Subject: A response to Mr. Minoo Dumasia

Hi Minoo. I was one of the people who got your email (the one copied
below). I believe you are one of those Parsi's who proclaim they have
an 'open mind'. If I am correct in that assumption, you will have the
courage to read what I have written in response to your email in its
entirety. I am not just another Traditional here to blast you at
every corner. You made some very valid points, and others that I
believe need some reconsideration. Since it is obvious that your and
my religious views differ, Im going to try my best to leave them out
of this. Instead I will be speaking strictly from the viewpoint of
theory, logic, history, social observations and research. Think about
it? I thought about it plenty, as you will soon find out, and here is
what I have got to say:
"The recent events and the shameful behaviour of the orthodox parsis
in Mumbai, led by the self-proclaimed leaders and keepers of the
faith, made it to the news on NDTV."
Were you there? What type of behavior did we partake in that you would
classify as shameful? Did we physically assault anyone? Did we commit
any crimes? Was anyone taken to the hospital? The answer to all of
those questions is of course, no. We simply stood up for what we
believed in, and intellectually challenged Antia. A challenge might I
add, that he was unable to meet. He was not able to answer even one
question asked by the audience in a satisfactory manner. If this
controversial event took place with any other religious community in
India, you better believe that heads would have rolled, literally. I
highly commend the people that were there for keeping our good name by
remaining relatively civil. The tempers that were lost, were of course
a natural human reaction to someone spreading lies about ones
religion. The cops were called in as a precautionary measure, not
because there was violence in progress.
"When will these stupid people ralise that with so few Parsis alive,
inter-breeding and marriages between close relatives will ultimately
lead to the extinction of our community. If the gene pool is very
small and limited, then it is a recepie for disaster for the parsis of
india. It is beyond belief how the Persian refugees survived in India
for so long with so little inter-mixing with the various Indian
sects."
First of all, its quite condescending and conceited for you to
proclaim your view as intelligent and those views of the orthodox as
"stupid." I don't proclaim to know everything, and I don't put down
other people and their beliefs because theirs are different than mine.
Since we have been following our practices for millennia and haven't
gone extinct yet, I think your claims are overly dramatic. Recipe for
disaster? If you want a recipe for disaster, how about when the
Hindus, Muslims and Christians of India all realize that we now openly
accept converts and gladly include us in their communal riots. How
quickly do you think we will be wiped off of India's map? Are you
personally going to defend our people and places of worship when riots
break out? Since you yourself said that it is beyond your belief as to
how we survived in India, vastly out numbered, for centuries let me
break it down for you. By marrying within the fold we were able to
preserve not only our religion, but our identity as well. If you would
like proof, look to the other areas of the world besides India whom
the Persian refugees migrated to. Where are they now, I ask you? What
happened to them? They were assimilated into their host populations,
never to return again because they intermarried. Look no further than
the Native Americans for even further proof. How many people do you
see who are self proclaimed "1/16th [insert Native American tribe name
here]" who actually follow the Native American way of life? The only
ones that currently follow their ways are the people who married
within their fold. Their ethno-centric religion is similar to us in
the sense that you cannot convert into being a Native American, you
have to be born into it, and the only way to raise the numbers is
increased birth rates. We held strong for centuries in India, our
population grew because we stuck to our beliefs and religious
practices. I think it is no coincidence at all that our numbers have
started to dramatically fall after the construct of mixed marriage was
introduced at the turn of the past century. Lastly, might I add that
scholars, both Zoroastrian and not, with PhD's in our religion from
accredited Universities, such as SOAS, Harvard, and Columbia are all
in unanimous agreement that Zoroastrianism does not, never has, and
never should accept converts or mixed marriages as it goes directly
against what we stand for.
"We adopted many of their customs, changed our language, our rasms
and ways of celebrating our good events are not Persian, made India
our home and yet we always treat them as "perjaat" and inferior in
their own country. Is that what is so great about us Parsis? No wonder
our misdeeds have now brought us close to extinction."
Customs, practices, food, culture, language, all have no religious
significance. They can change and adapt in time. The religion is
perfect to begin with, and requires no change. Who exactly do we treat
as inferior? It doesn't matter what your religious beliefs are, I
shouldn't have to tell you what a significant positive impact that
Parsi's have had on India as a country. We have not only contributed,
but have risen to be the some of the best in every field imaginable.
We as a community have done an incalculable amount of community
service and charitable work not just for our fellow Parsi's, but for
the Indian people as a whole. Don't think that just because we don't
allow our sons and daughters to marry an Indian, that we think they
are inferior. That is an idea propagated by you and yourself, not any
traditional that I have ever met. Fact of the matter is, if I got
married to a Blond haired-blue eyed- white skinned European girl, she
would be as much of a juddin as the darkest African woman walking this
planet. Country of origin and skin color has no bearing, it's the
religion that's everything. The only misdeeds hurling us closer to
extinction are the so called conversions, and the mixed marriages
taking place in our community.
"How many Parsis know Persian, let alone the 3000 year old archaic
language of Gathic Avestan? How many Parsis can recite the "Kushti"
prayers properly without missing chunks or mis-pronouncing the text.
How many can even correctly read and pronounce the Gujrati text from
our prayer books? How many of us can claim to be "true" Parsis who
sincerely and unflinchingly follow the Traditional Tenets of the
Zoroastrian Religion. If we can do all wrong things, not allowed by
our religion and still call ourselves Parsis, then why not let those
who want to become Zoroastrians be admitted into the faith."
So let me get this straight, your proposed solution to the supposed
lack of knowledge and practices are to inject more clueless people?
What makes you think your coveted converts will follow all of the
Traditional Tenets of the Zoroastrian Religion? It is literally
impossible to follow every single rule, however we must follow as many
rules as we are able to in this day and age, and not discount the
major pillars which make us who we are. Simply throwing them by the
way side when we can easily practice them is a sin. How about
encouraging and educating the current population of Zarthostis, the
ones who have helped keep our religion alive for millennia, on what
the correct rules are? If we can teach an outsider, we can teach our
own community, and it will have far greater chance sticking if we do
the latter. Why? Because its part of who we are, it's the very fiber
of our soul and being.
"None of us alive today (including the Zoroastrian diaspora) can say
"yes we know what the Prophet Zarathushtra has decreed". We only have
old scriptures written in Ancient texts and we have no authorative
translations for any of them. Most translations of ancient religious
texts and prayers are subjective or consensual. They are dependent on
the interpretation of the so called "experts" of the ancient texts.
People like Dastur Mirza, Randeria, and many other "so-called orthodox
Parsis" think they know everything and can dictate to the rest of the
community what they should accept and what they should reject. And
they also expect us to follow their decrees like lemmings. Remember
that Mirza has a finite life and today he may be the chief priest in
Udwada, tomorrow he may die and in future history be classed as the
man who rang the death knell of Zoroastrian Parsis of India."
To an extent, I agree with you here. We in fact have limited knowledge
about Avestean Texts. You could contest that we have no idea what they
mean. However, both eastern and western scholars have devoted their
entire lives to studying Avesta, and for you to make in one fell swoop
the assumption that their conclusions are "subjective and
consequential" is I think a bit premature. Even if we could translate
our existing texts perfectly, so many of our books in Persopolis were
burnt or destroyed. How do we know what our religion really wants us
to do? The answer is look to the past. History cannot be erased or
burnt down. The fact of the matter is, we cling so hard to our
traditions because it's the only accurate means we have of following
our religion. All things considered, as I said earlier, most of the
world renowned Avestean scholars will side with our traditional rules
and rituals time and time again.
"I believe that "Religion" or "Faith in God of a particular
denomination" is a personal thing. If I convert myself into a
Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew it is only because I choose to do so,
not because I am being forcibly converted. Similarly the progressive
parsis are not asking for forcible conversion of other races to
Zoroastrianism. The Title or Subject of Dr Kersi Antia's speech was
"Acceptance in Zoroastrianism".
He was only saying why should being a Zarthushti be either born to
both Parsi parents…"
You are correct, religion is a very personal topic, however just
because you make life choices that go against what the religion
mandates, does not mean the religion (which has been around longer
than yourself) should change to suit your needs. Imagine if that held
true for everyone. It would be total anarchy, and religion would have
no point in existing. The fact of the matter is no conversion ceremony
exists today, or ever existed in the past. I can make claims about the
past because we have historical evidence to back it up. Cyrus the
Great could have easily converted people if he wanted to with or
without force, yet this NEVER happened even once. Why do you think
that is? The "Navjote" Antia performed was a total sham. Almost every
Zarthosti knows that a Navjote is a coming of age ceremony for a
child, where they take responsibility for their future actions, and
cannot be performed on an adult with any spiritual significance! You,
nor I, nor even the highest priest of our time can create or perform a
conversion ceremony. We all as mortals lack both the knowledge of the
spiritual world, and the authority of Ahura Mazda to make changes or
reform to our religion. So to even discuss conversion would be a moot
point.
"… or a patriarchal inheritance. What about womens rights. Why do we
insist on rights for women to have equality, be politicians,
enterpreneurs or leaders, have equal pay etc. We openly proclaim our
disagreements with the mal-treatment of women in other societies and
religions and yet these hypocrites do this to our own sisters and
daughters and claim it is a religious decree."
I TOTALLY and wholeheartedly AGREE with you on this point. I couldn't
have said it better myself. Its wrong for EITHER a man OR a woman to
marry out of our religion. Who ever thinks that men can marry out is
living a lie. This was never part of our religion, and never will be.
There are only pockets of people who think this way. They know they
are dead wrong, and only continue to promote this nonsense because of
events that have happened in their family, because they have been paid
off, or because they are misguided. All the Vada Dasturji's signed an
accord denouncing this rumor years ago, I can send it to you if you
would like. This has been the case since we landed in Sanjan implying
that it is indeed of Persian origin. But don't take my word for it.
The late Dr. Mary Boyce, a western scholar who dedicated her life to
studying our religion wrote in her book, "...the panchayat set itself
resolutely against proselytizing or accepting juddins into the faith,
taking their stand on a statement attributed to the first settlers at
Sanjan, that they were those 'in whose cast men of different religion
are never accepted'. They also opposed investing with the kusti the
children of Parsi fathers and Hindu mothers." [Mary Boyce,
Zoroastrians: Their Religious Beliefs and Practices, P193]
"I also firmly believe that any person who wants to be converted into
our Faith should be accepted. As I said previously, those of us born
Parsis, have no real idea or knowledge of the religion and know
nothing about the deep meaning of our prayers. We simply read from a
"Prayer Book" and say it with very bad pronouncian; May God forgive us
for that."
Besides the fact that there is no way for a non-Zoroastrian to become
a Zoroastrian, there are some deep logic flaws here. If "us born
Parsis, have no real idea or knowledge of the religion and know
nothing about the deep meaning of our prayers" then where on earth is
a convert going to get this knowledge from? How are they going to
pronounce our prayers right? Either the information exists, in which
case people who know this information should be teaching and
encouraging other Zoroastrians, OR this information doesn't exist, in
which case converts wont make one bit of a positive difference.
"On the other hand, the convert is an enthusiastic, zealous and
devoted person, who has researched Zoroastrianism, thought about all
its aspects, compared it with his own and other religions and their
properties. He has then arrived at his own conclusion on Zoroastrian
tenets and practices. With this in mind he had decided on conversion.
Now think..."What could be better than an informed and knowledgeable
convert, an enthusisatic entrant who knows what he wants and has made
it his aim to know all about what he is converting to". Such informed
people could be the vanguard and bring life into our religion. Not
only that, these people would insert new genetic material into the
dwindled and inbred rotting genepool of the parsis of Mumbai."
A convert can also be a misled brainwashed loner who is constantly
seeking the next fad. Are you going to personally screen every single
convert into making sure they have done the 'research'. Wait, if they
did do the research, they would find that conversion is against our
practices and principals, both in ancient Iran and in the modern day
world, and would have the knowledge to not tamper with a group of
people whom they had great respect for. Furthermore, if you study
history, you will see that in Ancient Iran the downfall of the Persian
Empire came when such man made ideology was forcibly interjected under
the guise of 'religion'.
Your last scathing sentence really takes the cake. Putting all of my
religious belief aside, it's so offensive I have a tough time
believing that you don't take offence to your own words. Even if you
are a person born of mixed parents, (you may or may not be) to make a
statement like that really speaks volumes about your lack of both
character and knowledge. Do you realize that: Parsi's have represented
India (and won) in various Olympic events? The star players on India's
first cricket team were all Parsis? The man who brought Atomic Energy
to India, was also a Parsi.. State Bank of India, was started by a
Parsi? Air India was started by a Parsi? (need I go on, the list is
really endless). Parsi's have accomplished SO much that there is
actually a dedicated book which documents all of the Parsi Statues
that have been erected world wide to recognize their contributions to
society. The book is quite fat might I add. Pretty damn good for a
"dwindled and inbred rotting genepool" don't you think? By sticking to
our religous beliefs and doing what we can to enhance the quality of
life in India, this is how we have survived as a community in India,
and the Indians love and respect us for it! Have some self worth and
take pride in your own community!
While I cant speak for you, I for one, am perfectly normal and
relatively healthy, and so are ALL of my cousins and friends who are a
result of that populace. I have personally spoken with geneticists
regarding this issue and one informed me that Dr. King - a world
renowned breast cancer researcher who specifically stated that the
incidence of breast cancer in the Parsi community is not higher than
the global norm and there is NO EVIDENCE to show that there is any
inherited links in our group. We are no more or less predisposed to
certain conditions than any other. We have been marrying within our
community for millenia, so if you have everything present and
accounted for, please think twice about the statement you just made.
If it was that detrimental as you say it is, the extinction which you
so fondly speak of would have happened centuries ago. We are alive,
well, and strong thanks to our Traditional ways. I had the good
fortune of meeting up with hundreds of Zoroastrian youth last month,
all of whom were part of the genepool of which you speak so negatively
of. Let me say that I have never seen a more vibrant and vivacious
group of people in my entire life. Say what you want about our
traditions. You are a result of them. Everyone is free to their own
opinion after their own research. The baseless and libelleous claims
you make and propagate forsake not only your own self but your
ancestors as well.
Lastly your views don't surprise me as history does repeat itself. The
original Mazdayasnis devieated so far away from what was ther religon
to suit their needs, that Ahura Mazda had to send Zarathustra to set
things straight and reform the Mazdayasni Faith. This is no different
than what is happening now.

Please do think about it
Regards,
Ervad Jimmy Doctor, 25
U.S.A

Thursday, February 28, 2008

A Lesson for ARZ and AIMZ - says Mumbai Samachar

From: TZML Admins
Date: Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 6:38 PM
Subject: A Lesson for ARZ and AIMZ - says Mumbai Samachar
To: TZML <TraditionalZarathushtris@yahoogroups.com>


PLEASE SHARE THIS IMPORTANT PRESS RELEASE OF AN HISTORIC EVENT IN OUR
COMMUNITY WITH YOUR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES AND ALL THOSE ZARATHUSHTIS
WHO CARE FOR OUR RELIGION


HUMATA HUKHTA HAVARASHTA

28 Feb 2008

Dear Zarathushti humdins,
cc: Vada Dasturjis,
cc: Ervad Sahebs,
cc: The Parsee Voice,
cc: Zoroastrian Studies,
cc: Parsi Pukar,
cc: Dini-Awaz,
cc: Prominent Zoroastrians,
cc: TZML
cc: TMYZ officials

The Vada Dasturji public meeting of 15th February 2008 was a huge
success. Not only large number of concerned Zarathushtis attended to
give support, but also the result was a final clarification in
people's thinking that "Acceptance / Conversion" is not part of the
Zoroastrian religion.

And how could it ever be if it went against Ahura Mazda's own plan of
creating different religions for different people.

We hope that has opened the eyes of ARZ and AIMZ, who thought by
roping in a controversial priest from USA, Kersey Antia, they would
persuade people to accept "conversion', though it was to try and find
a manner to make non-Zoroastrian spouses and children acceptable to
the community.

Fortunately by Ahura Mazda's grace, the community responded well to
this threat and kept the danger at bay.

We were not happy that Jame, which being a community newspaper, and
supposedly a traditional one, did not feature this mammoth event in an
objective manner. If they are an unbiased newspaper, then it is their
duty to inform community members of such an important event as this
and quote what was spoken by the Vada Dasturjis, Ervad Sahebs and
scholars gathered there.

The Mumbai Samachar was forthright in covering the event and we
reproduce their report here for you all.

Do circulate this report to concerned friends, relatives and all other
Zarathushtis who can thereby get accurate and correct information on
why exactly "Acceptance/Conversion" is banned in the Zarathushti
religion.

The 'conversion' mentioned in our Gathas only refer to conversion of
one's bad vices and mentality to Good Virtues and Good Mentality. It
has never been interpreted as actual changing of one's religion,
unless of course, such falsehood is propagated by the likes of Ali
Jafarey and his supporters. The Jafarey cult has been trying to spread
this nonsense through the Zoroastrian community in India by their
related group called "Spenta University" based in Pune.

Dear Zarathushtis, please stay away from such groups and the ones like
ARZ, AIMZ who will only bring our dear community's ruin and disaster.

With best wishes to you all and your families,

TZML Admins
(encl the Mumbai Samachar report)


A LESSON FOR ARZ AND AIMZ

from Mumbai Samachar

24 Feb 2008

On 15th February 2008, a Public Meeting of Parsi and Irani
Zarathushtis was held at the Framji Cavasji Institute, Dhobi Talao,
Mumbai. It was under the auspices of all the Head Priests, scholar
priests, Dastoors, Mobeds and all other faithful Parsi and Irani
Zarathushtis of India. Its aim was to condemn and record a strong
protest against the irreligious and dangerous activities of the
Association for Revival of Zoroastrianism (ARZ) and the Association of
Intermarried Zoroastrians (AIMZ) and also against the speech delivered
under their auspices by one Shri Kersey Antia of U.S.A. on 2nd
February 2008 at Y.B. Chavan Auditorium, Mumbai, on the subject
"Acceptance".

The Meeting was chaired by Dastoorji Peshotan Hormazdyar Mirza, the
Head Priest of Udwada, the abode of Pak Iranshah, the Holy Fire (Agni,
Atash) established and consecrated more than a thousand years back.
Besides Dastoorji Mirza, Dastoorji Cyrus Dastoor from Surat, scholar
priests Ramyar Karanjia, Rooyintan Peer, Pervez Bajan, K.N. Dastoor
and Pervin Mistry and Adi Doctor from the Organizers were on the
stage. Quite a number of Mobeds (priests) were in the audience. On a
conservative estimate, nine hundred Parsis were present, including
several standees.

Messages from five other High Priests were read before the Meeting
during the proceedings. Each of them condemned in writing the
activities of the aforesaid Associations and wished the Meeting a
grand success (which it really turned out to be).

Dastoorji Peshotan Mirza traced the history of the Conversion Movement
during the last century. He referred to one Ali Akbar Jaffery and
wondered under what religious law he became a so-called Zoroastrian
which was an insult as also a mockery of Religion. He also referred to
the Mazdayasni Religion of one God which had begun in the time of
Gayomard. He also referred to Cyrus the Great who built the temples of
the great Jewish religion.

Dastoorji Cyrus of Surat quoted Gatha Ha 31:11 and 34:14 wherein it is
declared that all the Religions are in accordance with the Divine Plan
of Ahura Mazda. What was required was not the increase in population
but an increase in Faith.

Ervad Ramyar Karanjia traced the history of how the movement of
Conversion was strongly opposed by the community from time to time,
from the first decade of the last century. Ervad Pervez Bajan referred
to Maneckjee Dhalla, the late Dastoor of Karachi, and the failure of
his attempts to encourage conversion. Ervad Rooyintan Peer gave
historical and cultural references against conversion. A Resolution
was passed placed before the Meeting condemning the activities of
conversion and Shri Antias speech of 2nd February 2008. When put to
vote the Resolution was carried almost unanimously. There was a
hesitant dissent from about half a dozen persons. No questions or
opposition came forth.

Ervad K.N. Dastoor summed up the proceedings in the last speech. The
word "Acceptance" was a polite form of conversion. According to Mr.
Antia acceptance meant "conversion by persuasion". It was obvious that
such persuasion would require blasphemy of other Religions which was a
dangerous proposition to advance by the Parsis of India. Ervad Dastoor
said that the word "Daenao" in Gatha 31:11, 33:13, 34:13, 46:6, 49:9
convey clearly that all the Religions are according to the Divine Plan
of Ahura Mazda and conversion was inconsistent therewith. Mr. Antias
quotes were like Satan quoting the Bible. Ervad Dastoor referred to
Sheth Cowasji Dinshah Adenwalla who had helped his workers at Kandla
to build a temple on his land, and place therein an ancient Shiv-ling
found buried there. This showed the love and admiration the Parsis
have for all Religions. Mrs. Pervin Mistry of Canada and Mr. Adi
Doctor, Editor, Parsee Voice, very ably compered the Meeting. The idea
of the Meeting was conceived and developed by Mrs. Pervin Mistry and
WAPIZ helped her in several ways; the success of the Meeting was a
result of their efforts, which will surely be a lesson to ARZ and
AIMZ.

[A Press Release by the organisers]

(end)


PLEASE SHARE THIS IMPORTANT PRESS RELEASE OF AN HISTORIC EVENT IN OUR
COMMUNITY WITH YOUR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES AND ALL THOSE ZARATHUSHTIS
WHO CARE FOR OUR RELIGION

Tuesday, February 19, 2008

Parsis say "No" to conversion - Times Of India report

From: TZML Admins
Date: Feb 19, 2008 8:25 AM
Subject: Parsis say "No" to conversion - Times Of India report
To: TZML


The Report of the Public Meeting of the Dasturjis and Scholar Priests
has appeared in Saturday's Times of India on page 11.

A copy is attached.

PARSIS SAY NO TO CONVERSION

TIMES NEWS NETWORK

16 Feb 2008

Mumbai:

Does Zoroasfrianism enjoin conversion? Did Parsis living in India for the past
1,300 years ever go out and proselytise peopie from other faiths?

The answer was a categorical "no" at a public meeting called by the cornmunity's
Vada Dasturs (high priests) on Friday to counter the claims of a rebel priest
from the USA, Kersy Antia, who recently publicly called for converting people
from other faiths in order to increase the dwindling Parsi population. There are
about 45,000 Parsi-Irani Zoroastrians left in Mumbai. Almost a thousand people
attended the meeting.

Antia was jeered by a group of traditionalists after his lecture on acceptance
at the YB Chavan hall earlier this month. He contended that the religion allowed
conversion, but many felt that he simply twisted the scriptures to propagate his
views.

"This meeting has beei called specifically to oppose this false propaganda.
Antia has tried to draw a line between acceptance and conversion by stating that
acceptance is conversion by persuasion. Our view is that when you persuade
someone to convert, you are in fact, blaspheming the other religion, saying that
one is better than the other," said advocate and scholar priest K N Dastoor, who
was the main speaker at the gathering.

'Parsis are respected because they respect all religions and are
non-interfering. Besides, it is dangerous for such a small community if it
starts/luring people from other faiths into ours," he added.

Avesta scholar Adi Doctor said, "There are innumerable references in the entire
Zoroastrian scrip.tures including the Gathas against conversion and
proselytisation. Every individual is enjoined to foilow his own religion." To
buttress his argument, Doctor quoted some passages from the Gospels of St
Matthew and St John, to "vindicate" what has been said in the Zoroastrian
scriptures against conversion.

A resolution passed unanimously during the meeting said, "The community condemns
and puts on record its strong protest against the anti-Zarthushtrian activities
of acceptance/conversion perpetrated as well as propagated by
certainanti-religious groups and against the speech delivered by one Dr Kersy
Antia on February 2,2008."

"The community affirms and asserts its fuil faith and belief in the tenets,
traditions as well as practices of the religion observed for thousands of
years."

(end)

Monday, February 18, 2008

Dasturjis meeting against Conversion/Acceptance- A Grand Success

From: The Parsee Voice
Date: Feb 18, 2008 8:38 PM
Subject: Dasturjis meeting against Conversion/Acceptance- A Grand Success
To: Working Zoroastrians <working_zoroastrian@yahoogroups.com>

Dear Friends

The Public Meeting of the Dasturjis and Scholar Priests held on 15th
February 2008 at Framjee Cawasjee Hall was a THUMPING SUCCESS!

A Success :

- not just in terms of the attendance of community members (It was a
HOUSEFUL with over 800 attendees, some standing throughout the
meeting) but also because the community members present UNANIMOUSLY
passed a Resolution REJECTING CONVERSION/ACCEPTANCE as sought to be
propagated by the likes of ARZ, AIMZ and their cohorts.
- because it received the support and blessings of ALL THE PRESENT
VADA DASTURJIS. Those of them who could not attend for reasons of
sickness/old age/pre-occupation, sent in their messages of support to
the meeting and the Resolution passed thereat.
- because ALL THE TRADITONALS GROUPS IN THE COMMUNITY PITCHED IN AND
ENSURED THAT THE MEETING ACHIEVED ITS OBJECTIVES.
- because TRUTH prevailed and MISINFORMATION was shown the door.
- because NOT A SINGLE POLICEMAN HAD TO BE DEPLOYED FOR FEAR OF A BACKLASH!

Gracing the function were Dasturjis Peshotan Hormuzdyar Mirza of
Udvada and Cyrus Noshirwan Dastoor of Surat, Scholar Priests Ervads
Rooyintan Peer, Ramiyar Karanjia, Parvez Bajan and K N Dastoor. The
meeting was compered by Mr Adi Doctor. Mrs Pervin Mistry, who
initiated and spearheaded this whole show was also present on stage.
In the audience were present amongst others, BPP Trustee, Dinshaw
Mehta, three ex-Trustees, Ms Nellie Noble, Mr Eruch Desai and Mr
Rustom Tirandaz, three Trustees of WAPIZ, Mr Khojeste Mistree, Mr
Hoshang Wania and Mr Yazdi Desai. A handful of people from the
opposition were also present but obviously decided that discretion was
the better part of valour and chose to maintain a discrete silence
rather than expose their irreligious leanings.

Both the Dasturjis, with great fervour and eloquence, forcefully
decried the attempts made to legitimise Acceptance/Conversion and gave
very lucid explanations and references from the scriptures for the
same. This was in stark contrast to the charade made a fortnight ago
by Kersey Antia, who chose to promote conversion but COULD NOT OFFER
EVEN ONE AUTHENTIC REFERENCE FROM THE EXTANT SCRIPTURES for the same.
Their talk was accompanied by several rounds of thunderous applause.

The Scholar Priests too gave very effective rebuttals to the
pro-conversion theories of ARZ, AIMZ and others. Ervad Ramiyar gave
references to show that conversion never formed part of the Gathas or
other scriptures.

Ervad Peer gave a historical perspective of the community's stay in
India and how over the centuries the community had acted to save its
religion and traditions rather than succumb to the evil of conversion.

Ervad Bajan gave references from the works of Late Dasturji Hormuzdyar
K Mirza to show that conversion was a myth and never formed a part of
the scriptures.

Ervad K N Dastoor explained the scheme of things in nature and why it
was spiritually harmful to indulge in conversion. He also indicated
that legally every community had a right to practise its own religion
and no court of law had the authority to intervene in these beliefs or
grant any reliefs to persons who sought to go against these practices.
He also debunked the various claims made by Antia in his earlier talk.

The Resolution passed UNANIMOUSLY at the said meeting is attached.

The whole event was a success thanks to the untiring efforts of those
involved in it, premier amongst them being Mrs Pervin Mistry, who
conceived the whole idea of this meeting, Anahita and Yazdi Desai for
their wholehearted administrative support and inputs and all the other
co-religionists who pitched in with their time, money and efforts to
make the event a MEMORABLE ONE.

Hanoz M Mistry

Sunday, February 17, 2008

Priests can bar intermarried Parsi men and his child from entering a Fire temple - Religious law more important than legal law

From: TZML Admins
Date: Feb 17, 2008 8:49 PM
Subject: Priests can bar intermarried Parsi men and his child from
entering a Fire temple - Religious law more important than legal law
To: TZML <TraditionalZarathushtris@yahoogroups.com>


(An excerpt from a recent article in Jame by Homi Dorabji Bana. Some
of the points in the article did not make sense when Mr Bana writes
that Parsis started wearing sudreh-kusti only after coming to India
and that they did not do so in Iran. But apart from that some other
points are well made and we reproduce them here.

He is correct - the Parsi priests have EVERY RIGHT TO BAR INTERMARRIED
MEN AND WOMEN AND THEIR CHILDREN FROM ENTERING OUR HOLY PLACES. In
fact, all agiaries should be strict and bar these erring people entry
inside)


MATERIAL LAW V/s SPIRITUAL LAW
(excerpts reproduced here)

By: Homi Dorabji Bana

Some time ago a Parsi man who was married to a non Parsi woman came
with his child to the Iranshah Fire Temple in Udwada. At the gate
stood the priest in charge, who refused to allow the man and his child
into the fire temple. The priest reasoned that the child was
considered to be a Parsi only by the court of law but as a priest he
did not recognise this and did not consider the child to be a Parsi,
being of a non Parsi mother. The priest, the spiritual guardian of the
temple, was concerned only about the religious laws and not what was
decided in the court. Here was a case of material law versus
religious/spiritual law and hence the priest, the custodian of the
religious laws and tenets, resisted the material/secular force.

The priest class in the Zoroastrian religion has the duty to guard the
laws pertaining to it as well as to conduct the rites and rituals. My
mother always used to tell me, "Give respect to the White Cap!" by
which she meant of course the priest's cap. The religious
understanding of a community is influenced by its priests and their
judgement is based upon their study of the religious texts and
experience in performing various ceremonies. Our Fire Temples are the
sacred places of worship and their sanctimonious atmosphere must be
preserved. Those who have learnt the Avesta prayers come to the Fire
Temple to worship. In Islam, those who do not belong to the religion
are called Qafir; in our religion, those who are not Zoroastrians are
called Durvan or Juddin and are not permitted to enter our Fire
Temples and encroach upon the religious rights of the followers of our
religion. Therefore one should respect the sentiments of the majority
in our religion. Our holy Avesta scriptures, our holy rites and
rituals of olden times, being entirely of a spiritual nature, cannot
be modernised as science (material). Without adequate knowledge, to
introduce new and adverse ideas is a sin and it is for the priests to
uphold the sanctity of the Good Religion.

(end)

There is No 'Conversion' in Zoroastrianism, says Mr. Homi P. Ranina

From: TZML Admins
Date: Feb 17, 2008 8:36 PM
Subject: There is No 'Conversion' in Zoroastrianism, says Mr. Homi P. Ranina
To: TZML <TraditionalZarathushtris@yahoogroups.com>


There is No 'Conversion' in Zoroastrianism,

says Mr. Homi P. Ranina


May Wisdom Prevail!

(Gist of speech given by Mr. Homi P. Ranina, Trustee of Karani Agiary
at the Salgreh function held on 5th February, 2008)

Zoroastrianism has been universally regarded as one of the first
divinely revealed religions. Prophet Zarthushtra has been inaccurately
portrayed as one who converted people from other divinely revealed
religions. A significant point which has been overlooked by zealous
reformists is that Prophet Zarathushtra spread His divine message
amongst people who lived in a region where there was no other divinely
revealed religion at the time when He lived.

The people of such times were followers of cults and idol worship
which were devoid of ethical content and did not rise to the level of
a divinely revealed religion as we know of today. Therefore, it is
wrong to contend that Prophet Zarathushtra converted people from a
religion, when none existed in the land of Airyana Vaeja. Spreading
the message of Ahura Mazda by Zarathustra cannot be construed as
conversion.

After Zoroastrianism, other divinely revealed religions like
Christianity, Islam and others found their roots at different points
in time in diverse parts of the world. These religions have spread to
embrace within their fold millions of people. Even when the Persian
Empire spread to a vast area of what is now referred to as West Asia,
other religions were followed by the non-Iranian people.

The Zoroastrian Kings, Cyrus and Darius, encouraged and supported the
Jews who lived in their Kingdom to follow their own religion, Judaism.
In fact, these noble kings gave them financial assistance to rebuild
their religious institutions. Thus, Zoroastrians, through the Ages,
have never accepted the principle of conversion because the birth of a
person in a divinely ordained religion is the Will of God; just as the
time and place of birth of an individual, his family of birth, his
lifespan, etc., can only be attributed to His divine Will.

Viewed in this perspective, accepting a person who has renounced the
religion of his birth and admitting him into another religion is an
affront to what has been divinely ordained. Even if a person
voluntarily gives up his religion of birth, a true believer in God
would never accept such a person in his own faith, just as it would be
ethically wrong to adopt a person who has disowned his own parents.

Zoroastrians are not clannish or inward-looking if they do not allow
others to convert to their religion. A true Zoroastrian believes in
encouraging others to pursue the religious faith in which they are
born because Zoroastrians have respect for all religions and believe
that the Will of God must prevail.

Forsaking one's religion of birth makes a mockery of that person's
religious convictions and faith. All divinely revealed religions lay
down the path which leads to the Kingdom of God, making the issue of
conversion irrelevant.

Every person who is a true believer in God must realize that once His
Creator has made the choice of his religion for him at the time of his
birth, the issue of "freedom of choice" thereafter by the individual
does not arise. Zarathushtra, in the Gathas, exhorted his followers to
make a choice between truth and lie, right and wrong, good and evil,
virtue and vice; not a choice between two divinely revealed religions.

May Wisdom prevail!

(end)

Reproduced in a recent issue of Jame Weekly

Saturday, February 16, 2008

NOTICE:- Zoroastrian Vada Dasturjis (High Priests) and Scholars publicly declare that "Acceptance/Conversion" is not part of the Zoroastrian religion

From: TZML Admin
Date: Feb 16, 2008 3:23 PM
Subject: NOTICE:- Zoroastrian Vada Dasturjis (High Priests) and
Scholars publicly declare that "Acceptance/Conversion" is not part of
the Zoroastrian religion
To: TZML <TraditionalZarathushtris@yahoogroups.com>

PLEASE PASS ON NEWS OF THIS HISTORIC AND SUCCESSFUL ATTEMPT IN SAVING
OUR RELIGION TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES


HUMATA HUKHTA HAVARASHTA

16 Feb 2008

Dear Zarathushti humdins,
cc: Vada Dasturjis,
cc: Ervad Sahebs,
cc: The Parsee Voice,
cc: Zoroastrian Studies,
cc: Parsi Pukar,
cc: Dini-Awaz,
cc: Prominent Zoroastrians,
cc: TZML
cc: TMYZ officials

As expected, the public meeting of Vada Dasturjis, Ervad Sahebs
(priests), Scholars and teachers of the religion held in Mumbai on
15th February 2008 was a great success.

The distinguished men of our religion clearly gave references to show
that conversion never formed part of the Gathas or other scriptures.
We were glad to know that over 800+ people attended, and it was a case
of "House-Full", some people standing throughout the meeting because
of this. This shows that the common Zarathushti men and women do care
for their religion and are very concerned about the mis-truths and
mistrust propounded by groups like ARZ, AIMZ and lately by Kersey
Antia of Chicago.

We were told that the meeting was a thumping success for the following reasons:
* Not just in terms of the attendance of community members (It was a
HOUSEFULL with over 800 attendees, some standing throughout the
meeting) but also because the community members present UNANIMOUSLY
passed a Resolution REJECTING CONVERSION/ACCEPTANCE as sought to be
propagated by the likes of ARZ and AIMZ.
* Because it received the support and blessings of ALL THE PRESENT
VADA DASTURJIS. Those of them who could not attend for reasons of
sickness/old age/pre-occupation, sent in their messages of support to
the meeting and the Resolution passed thereat.
* Because ALL THE TRADITONALS GROUPS IN THE COMMUNITY PITCHED IN AND
ENSURED THAT THE MEETING ACHIEVED ITS OBJECTIVES.
* Because TRUTH prevailed and MISINFORMATION was shown the door.
Gracing the function were Dasturjis Peshotan Hormuzdyar Mirza of
Udvada and Cyrus Noshirwan Dastoor of Surat, Scholar Priests Ervads
Rooyintan Peer, Ramiyar Karanjia, Parvez Bajan and K N Dastoor. The
meeting was compered by Mr Adi Doctor. Mrs Pervin Mistry, who
initiated and spearheaded this whole show was also present on stage.
In the audience were present amongst others, Dinshaw Mehta, BPP
Trustee and three ex-Trustees, Ms Nellie Noble, Mr Eruch Desai and Mr
Rustom Tirandaz. A handful of people from the opposition were also
present but sensibly decided that discretion was the better part of
valour and chose to maintain a discrete silence rather than expose
their irreligious leanings.

Both the Dasturjis, with great fervour and eloquence, forcefully
decried the attempts made to legitimise Acceptance/Conversion and gave
very lucid explanations and references from the scriptures for the
same. This was in stark contrast to the charade made a fortnight ago
by Kersey Antia, who chose to promote conversion but COULD NOT OFFER
EVEN ONE AUTHENTIC REFERENCE FROM THE EXTANT SCRIPTURES for the same.
Their talk was accompanied by several rounds of thunderous applause.

The Scholar Priests too gave very effective rebuttals to the
pro-conversion theories of ARZ, AIMZ and others. Ervad Ramiyar gave
references to show that conversion never formed part of the Gathas or
other scriptures.

Ervad Peer gave a historical perspective of the community's stay in
India and how over the centuries the community had acted to save its
religion and traditions rather than succumb to the evil of conversion.

Ervad Bajan gave references from the works of Late Dasturji Hormuzdyar
K Mirza to show that conversion was a myth and never formed a part of
the scriptures.

Ervad K N Dastoor explained the scheme of things in nature and why it
was spiritually harmful to indulge in conversion. He also indicated
that legally every community had a right to practise its own religion
and no court of law had the authority to intervene in these beliefs or
grant any reliefs to persons who sought to go against these practices.
He also debunked the various claims made by Antia in his earlier talk.

The Resolution passed UNANIMOUSLY at the said meeting is attached.

The whole event was a success thanks to the untiring efforts of those
involved in it.

So there we have it, dear Zarathushti humdins. Once again, our Vada
Dasturjis, Ervad Sahebs, sincere Zarathushti scholars and ordinary and
sincere Zarathushtis who rallied around to save their religion and
community from misguided groups.

We hope that now ARZ stop their misleading campaign in the Parsee
press and instead use their resources and talents to help the
youngsters of our community to marry within, marry early and increase
the population by having many many Zoroastrian children.


With best wishes
TZML Admins

(see below for the Resolution passed)

Resolution passed by the members of the Parsi-Irani Zarthushti

community present at the Public Meeting held on Friday February 15th

2008 at the Framjee Cawasjee Institute, Dhobi Talao, Mumbai.

This Public Meeting held on Friday February 15th 2008, at the Framjee

Cawasjee Institute, Mumbai, of the Parsi-Irani-Zarthushti Community

hereby condemns and puts on record its strong protest against the anti-

Zarthushtrian activities of 'acceptance'/conversion perpetrated and

propagated by certain anti-religious groups and against the speech delivered

by one Dr. Kersey Antia from U.S.A. at Y.B. Chavan Auditorium, Mumbai

on 2nd February 2008 on the subject named as 'Acceptance', and hereby:

1. "RESOLVES that the Parsi community affirms and asserts its full

faith and belief in the tenets, traditions and practices of the Zarthushti

Religion observed for thousands of years and reiterates its

commitment to maintain its distinct identity and preserve and practice

the Zarthushti Religion as handed down to us by our ancestors.

2. FURTHER RESOLVES that the Parsi community firmly declares that

the Zarthushti Religion forbids 'acceptance'/Conversion by any

method including adoption of non-Parsi-Irani-Zarthushtis to our

religion and considers such an act to be a religious sin.

3. FURTHER RESOLVES that the Parsi community strongly deplores

and condemns the anti-religious attempts being made by the

Association for Revival of Zoroastrianism (ARZ), Association of

Intermarried Zoroastrians (AIMZ) and other misguided individuals to

subvert the tenets and traditions of the Zarthushti Religion and spread

a distorted version of its sublime teachings as enshrined in the Holy

Avesta.

4. FURTHER RESOLVES that this Meeting strongly condemns and

disapproves Dr. Antia's views on 'acceptance'/conversion as it

grossly deviates from the established religious norms and the opinions

of the Vada Dasturjis expressed by them from time to time.

5. FURTHER RESOLVES that the Parsis who have lived in India for

centuries are grateful to the Hindu Community and the Hindu

Religion for allowing us to preserve and follow our religious

disciplines and practices and to protect our religious institutions.

6. FURTHER RESOLVES that a copy of this Resolution be forwarded to

the Parsi Punchayat, Athornan Mandal and various Anjumans and

Associations of India".


PLEASE PASS ON NEWS OF THIS HISTORIC AND SUCCESSFUL ATTEMPT IN SAVING
OUR RELIGION TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES

Salgrehs and other celebrations in the month of Meher YZ 1377 (Feb-March 2008)

From: Tehemton B. Adenwalla
Date: Feb 16, 2008 12:05 PM
Subject: Salgrehs and other celebrations in the month of Meher YZ 1377
(Feb-March 2008)
To: TZML <TraditionalZarathushtris@yahoogroups.com>

Baname Khuda!

Dear Zarathushti friends,

today has begun Meher mah.

Meher is the 7th month of the Zarathushtrian calendar.

The Salgrehs and other important celebrations in this month are:

* Hormazd roj - Sat 16th Feb - the Mirza Prayer Hall at Jamnagar
* Ardibehest roj - Mon 18th Feb - the Petit Dadgah at the J
N Petit Tech School, Pune
* Adar roj - Sun 24th Feb - the Patel Agiary at Thane

* Gosh roj - Fri, 29 Feb - the Jhaveri
Daremeher at Kanpur
* Daepmeher roj - Sat 1st March - the Langrana Agiart at Fort, Mumbai
* Meher roj - Sun 2nd March - Meherangan jashan

* Sarosh roj - Mon 3rd March - theGandhi Daremeher, Allahabad
* Behram roj - Thu 6th March - the Vakil Daremeher, Ahmedabad
* Ashtad roj - Wed 12th March - Aayathrem Gahambar
* Asman roj - Thu 13th March - the Chavna Daremeher, Suvali

In a Zoroastrian calendar by Ahura Mazda Enterprise (Tel 2385 1204),
it is stated that on Ardibehest roj, Mon 18th Feb is the Salgreh of
the Petit Adarian at Surat (Rustampura).

Is it correct?

Sincerely
Tehemton B. Adenwalla
PS. Let us know if there are any other noteworthy occasions in this month.

Thursday, February 14, 2008

Do not foget the Vada Dasturji's public lecture tomorrow .Why "Acceptance" (Conversion) is not acceptable will be explained

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: TZML Admins
Date: Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 7:18 PM
Subject: Do not foget the Vada Dasturji's public lecture tomorrow .Why
"Acceptance" (Conversion) is not acceptable will be explained
To: TZML <TraditionalZarathushtris@yahoogroups.com>


PLEASE CIRCULATE THIS EMAIL TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES SO THAT
THEY ARE NOT FOOLED BY THE MIS-GUIDED PROPAGANDA APPEARING IN OUR
PARSI PAPERS

HUMATA HUKHTA HAVARASHTA

14 Feb 2008

Dear Zarathushti humdins,
cc: Vada Dasturjis,
cc: Ervad Sahebs,
cc: The Parsee Voice,
cc: Zoroastrian Studies,
cc: Parsi Pukar,
cc: Dini-Awaz,
cc: Prominent Zoroastrians,
cc: TZML
cc: TMYZ officials

tomorrow on Friday, 15th Feb, our Vada Dasturjis and Ervad Sahebs will
be speaking on correcting the mis-truths spread by Kersey Antia and
ARZ.

Please attend the lecture and give your full support to the Dasturjis
and Ervad Sahebs and the organisers of this meet.

It is important that as a community we stay united instead of being
trapped by all this mumbo-jumbo by some misguided members of our
community who have been repeatedly told that "the only 'conversion'
mentioned in the Gathas is conversion of one's evil mentality and
vices into good mentality and virtues". ARZ have also been told by
honest scholars of Zoroastrianism that "each person is born within a
religion predestined before birth and one is not to convert one's
religion in one's life time".

But ARZ will not listen to sane advice since their (main) agenda is to
make intermarried children part of our community in a mis-guided and
naive way to increase the community population. ARZ have teamed with
AIMZ, which stands for Association of Intermarried Zoroastrians, and
one need not say anything further. You make your own conclusions.

ARZ have also sent their lop-sided interview conducted in Jame to none
other than Ali Jafarey, a Muslim from Pakistan now settled in USA, and
who has made it a business to "convert" Irani Muslims, Christians,
Catholics, Venezuelans, Latinos, Brazilians and any and every one who
will pay the fees. (see enclosed picture).

Some of you may not be aware that a few years ago Jafarey registered
himself as a "Zoroastrian priest". And it was a Jafarey supporter who
maligned our holy Nirang and called it "bull-piss'. Such is their lack
of understanding of the majestic Zoroastrian religion.

We have also included a screen-shot from the documentary of Tenaz
Dubash which was featured after the talk of Antia on 2nd Feb. That
documentary talks to intermarried couples, but we know from our Holy
Vendidad, the Husparam Nask, the Patet Pashemani etc and also from the
Vada Dasturjis that intermarriage of any kind (male or female) is not
sanctioned by the Zarathushti religion. (see enclosed picture)

So much for ARZ's religious links. We have shown you their alliances
and now you make up your own mind as to how this group is set to ruin
our community, our traditions and tenets which have allowed it to
survive for more than a thousand years in India.

The only solution from all this madness and mayhem is to return to the
path of marrying within the community only.

This applies to both males and females. Males do not get any leeway
here, they are bound by the same rules as females.

And children of both male and intermarried Parsis are not Zarathushtis.

This should be the stance we all traditional minded people should take
and that will keep us united and ethnically strong. Never mind the
current small numbers, the numbers will swell up when the right time
in Nature comes for such an event.

Meanwhile lets do our best, be faithful to our religion and its
tenets, and nothing nor anybody - ARZ, Antia or Ali - can cause any
harm. Let them splash their false messages in expensive tabloids,
after some time Nature will take its own course, and these people will
be shown the true path by Ahura Mazda Himself.

Those who can must attend the public lecture at the Framji Cawasjee
Institute at Dhobi Talao, Mumbai.

Below is reproduced the itinerary of the public talk.

With best wishes
TZML Admins

please see below and also the attachment)


Dasturjis & Scholar Priests Speak Out:
Acceptance / Conversion Not Acceptable

Date: Friday, 15th February 2008

Time: 6 p.m.

Place: Framjee Cawasjee Institute (Hall)
Opposite the Metro Adlabs, Dhobi Talao, Mumbai

Event: Dasturjis Public Meeting.

Our learned Dasturjis and Religious Scholar Priests will give a
public rebuttal against Acceptance/Conversi on in Zoroastrianism.

Buses will be available from:

Dadar, Rustomframna Agiary starting at 4 p.m.
Parel, Tata Colony, from Police Chowky, Firdoshi, 4:15 p.m. Lalbaug,
A.H.Wadia Baug, near the main gate, 4: 30 p.m.

Navroze Baug, near the main entrance, 4 p.m.
Rustom Baug, near the main entrance, 4:30 p.m.
Jer Baug, near the main entrance, 4:45 p.m.

Cama Park, near the main entrance, 3 p.m.
Shapur Bharucha Baug, near the entrance, 3:15 p.m.
Panthaky Baug, near the main entrance, 3:45 p.m.

Buses will not be able to make long halts for pick ups.

Light refreshments will be provided.


PLEASE CIRCULATE THIS EMAIL TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES SO THAT
THEY ARE NOT FOOLED BY THE MIS-GUIDED PROPAGANDA APPEARING IN OUR
PARSI PAPERS

Tuesday, February 12, 2008

Public lecture by Vada Dasturjis and Ervad Sahebs - DO NOT MISS IT - Fri, 15th February

From: TZML Admins
Date: Feb 12, 2008 8:27 PM
Subject: Public lecture by Vada Dasturjis and Ervad Sahebs - DO NOT
MISS IT - Fri, 15th February
To: TZML <TraditionalZarathushtris@yahoogroups.com>

PLEASE CIRCULATE THIS EMAIL TO ALL GOOD AND TRADITIONAL MINDED
ZARATHUSHTIS YOU KNOW SO THAT THEY CAN ATTEND TO THE LECTURES BY VADA
DASTURJIS

HUMATA HUKHTA HAVARASHTA

12 Feb 2008

Dear Zarathushti humdins,
cc: Vada Dasturjis,
cc: Ervad Sahebs,
cc: The Parsee Voice,
cc: Zoroastrian Studies,
cc: Parsi Pukar,
cc: Dini-Awaz,
cc: Prominent Zoroastrians,
cc: TZML
cc: TMYZ officials

Our dear Vada Dasturjis and Ervad Sahebs from Mumbai have taken upon
themselves the noble task to guide our community on religious issues.
They will be doing so in a few days time in Mumbai and explaining to
our community brethren that "Acceptance", "Conversion" and other such
mis-truths propounded by ARZ and Kersey Antia have no place in our
wonderful Zoroastrian religion.

We request all humdins who can make it to go to the lecture and listen
to the good religious facts which will be conveyed in this meeting.

We are also enclosing the anouncement as it appeared on the Parsee affairs page.

Date: Friday, 15h Feb 2008
Time: 6 pm
At: The Framjee Cowasjee Institute (Hall), Opposite Metrolabs, Dhobhi
Talao. Mumbai.

Please remember that if anyone attempts to misguide you by mentioning
that to have gender equality we must give the same concessions to
intermarried women and their children, just turn around and say: "What
the intermarried men do is also not correct, the damage should be
stopped by both the sexes".

Meaning: We do not accept intermarriages of both Parsi men and Parsi
women. We do not accept children of such mixed marriages in the fold.
Their 'naojotes" are religiously invalid. That is the LAW of our
religion.

Let us once again thank the Vada Dasturjis, our Ervad Sahebs and the
organisers of the public lecture on Fri, the 15th February.

Please attend in large numbers to not only support our community
against misguided people like ARZ, but to also learn much about the
inner details of our religion.

With best wishes
TZML Admins
(please see below and also the attachment)


Dasturjis & Scholar Priests Speak Out:
Acceptance / Conversion Not Acceptable

Date: Friday, 15th February 2008

Time: 6 p.m.

Place: Framjee Cawasjee Institute (Hall)
Opposite the Metro Adlabs, Dhobi Talao, Mumbai

Event: Dasturjis Public Meeting.

Our learned Dasturjis and Religious Scholar Priests will give a
public rebuttal against Acceptance/Conversi on in Zoroastrianism.

Buses will be available from:

Dadar, Rustomframna Agiary starting at 4 p.m.
Parel, Tata Colony, from Police Chowky, Firdoshi, 4:15 p.m. Lalbaug,
A.H.Wadia Baug, near the main gate, 4: 30 p.m.

Navroze Baug, near the main entrance, 4 p.m.
Rustom Baug, near the main entrance, 4:30 p.m.
Jer Baug, near the main entrance, 4:45 p.m.

Cama Park, near the main entrance, 3 p.m.
Shapur Bharucha Baug, near the entrance, 3:15 p.m.
Panthaky Baug, near the main entrance, 3:45 p.m.

Buses will not be able to make long halts for pick ups.

Light refreshments will be provided.


PLEASE CIRCULATE THIS EMAIL TO ALL GOOD AND TRADITIONAL MINDED
ZARATHUSHTIS YOU KNOW SO THAT THEY CAN ATTEND TO THE LECTURES BY VADA
DASTURJIS

Saturday, February 9, 2008

Public Meeting-Friday, 15-2-2008

From: The Parsee Voice
Date: Feb 9, 2008 3:29 PM
Subject: Public Meeting-Friday, 15-2-2008

Dasturjis & Scholar Priests Speak Out:
Acceptance / Conversion Not Acceptable

Date: Friday, 15th February 2008

Time: 6 p.m.

Place: Framjee Cawasjee Institute (Hall)
Opposite the Metro Adlabs, Dhobi Talao, Mumbai

Event: Dasturjis Public Meeting.

Our learned Dasturjis and Religious Scholar Priests will give a
public rebuttal against Acceptance/Conversion in Zoroastrianism.

Buses will be available from:

Dadar, Rustomframna Agiary starting at 4 p.m.
Parel, Tata Colony, from Police Chowky, Firdoshi, 4:15 p.m. Lalbaug,
A.H.Wadia Baug, near the main gate, 4: 30 p.m.

Navroze Baug, near the main entrance, 4 p.m.
Rustom Baug, near the main entrance, 4:30 p.m.
Jer Baug, near the main entrance, 4:45 p.m.
Cama Park, near the main entrance, 3 p.m.
Shapur Bharucha Baug, near the entrance, 3:15 p.m.
Panthaky Baug, near the main entrance, 3:45 p.m.

Buses will not be able to make long halts for pick ups.

Light refreshments will be provided.

Friday, February 8, 2008

Public Meeting-Friday, 15-2-2008

From: The Parsee Voice
Date: Feb 8, 2008 6:16 PM
Subject: Public Meeting-Friday, 15-2-2008
To: "Tehemton B. Adenwalla"

Dasturjis & Scholar Priests Speak Out:
Acceptance / Conversion Not Acceptable

Date: Friday, 15th February 2008

Time: 6 p.m.

Place: Framjee Cawasjee Institute (Hall)
Opposite the Metro Adlabs, Dhobi Talao, Mumbai

Event: Dasturjis Public Meeting.

Our learned Dasturjis and Religious Scholar Priests will give a
public rebuttal against Acceptance/Conversion in Zoroastrianism.

Buses will be available from:

Dadar, Rustomframna Agiary starting at 4 p.m.
Parel, Tata Colony, from Police Chowky, Firdoshi, 4:15 p.m. Lalbaug,
A.H.Wadia Baug, near the main gate, 4: 30 p.m.
Navroze Baug, near the main entrance, 4 p.m.
Rustom Baug, near the main entrance, 4:30 p.m.
Jer Baug, near the main entrance, 4:45 p.m.
Cama Park, near the main entrance, 3 p.m.
Shapur Bharucha Baug, near the entrance, 3:15 p.m.
Panthaky Baug, near the main entrance, 3:45 p.m.

Buses will not be able to make long halts for pick ups.

Light refreshments will be provided.

From Parsee Voice on Antia

From: The Parsee Voice
Date: Feb 8, 2008 2:07 PM
Subject: Fw: Antia
To: Tannaz Parakh

A message from one of our Traditionals.

_______________________________________________________________

Dear Sirs,

This is in response to the article entitled "Liberal Parsis take on
the Orthodox" penned by Sweta Ramanujan, which appeared in the HT
edition dated February 1, 2008.

The proverb "Ignorance Is Bliss" applies to these so-called Liberals
/ Radicals, who give one the impression of absurdity colouring their
thought patterns, apropos. These Rebels have donned the garb of a
Saviour or a Messiah of Zoroastrianism who seem to "know" the hows
and whys of this pristine religion without making an attempt to study
and cognize it.

To quote the co-founder of ARZ, Kersi Wadia : "Injustice is meted out
to inter-married Parsis….but the scriptures do not say anything like
this…They say the religion is universal…" This response from Kersi
Wadia sounds akin to a dialogue between two nursery kids fighting for
a lollipop !

I would like to ask Kersi Wadia apropos his "knowledge" of one of the
oldest religions of India - Zoroastrianism.

The opinions of these liberals are coloured with naivete and indicate
that they seem to be blissfully unaware of the VENDIDAD – details of
which are available on the internet, interalia, regarding
Zoroastrianism.

They have either not heard of or comprehended the meaning of
"jzirhum" , which is one of the main reasons why intermarriage cannot
be accepted, not only in Zoroastrianism, but in all religions, per se.
This concept applies to each and every religion. Man is not endowed
with cosmic powers to enable him to alter the message of the Prophets
of the religion of his birth.

A string of fancy degrees attached to names alongwith with pots full
of money and worldly luxuries do not bestow divine knowledge on
anybody and man has no authority whatsoever to modify either the text
or the meaning of the scriptures of ANY RELIGION ON EARTH MERELY TO
SUIT HIS WHIM & FANCY.

These "Liberals" are merely "refined idiots who lack commonsense"
and they are trying to woo the community members with loads of
FREEBIES merely to attend their meeting and witness them making total
fools of themselves. That if people decide to attend this meeting,
it will only be to procure "the FREEBIES", unlike community meetings
held by our High Priests in tandem with noted scholars of
Zoroastrianism, like Mr Adi Doctor and others, which are attended by
fellow Zoroastrians in L A R G E N U M B E R S WITHOUT ANY
FREE SNACKS OR BEVERAGES BEING GIVEN TO THEM MERELY TO ENTICE
THEM TO ATTEND SUCH MEETINGS.

That pamphlets enticing them with these FREEBIES have been dispatched
to all Parsi colonies / buildings in Bombay, pleading with them to
attend their "glorified" meeting.

In contrast, it would be advised that they thoroughly cognize
"Zoroastrianism" before worrying about our "dwindling numbers", for
purity is always preferred to adulteration, indubitably.

Here is an excerpt from the November 2005 edition of Parsee Voice,
which is self-explanatory:-

"In a section of the Hindu community in Bhubaneshwar, Orissa, which
are an eye-opener for the Parsee community and, particularly, for
those pernickety Parsees, like the trustees of ARZ or a panthaky or
two of certain Agiaries of Mumbai, In the month of November, certain
events took place who, because of ignorance, take pride in allowing a
non-Parsee spouse of a Parsee woman to attend the Zoroastrian
prayers/rituals performed in a temple or elsewhere.

It should be remembered that idols in a few Hindu temples only, are
consecrated. Therefore, non-Hindus are non-permitted there.

In the case of Parsee fire-temples, all of them having any or all of
the three categories of fires – Atash Behram, Adaran and Dadgah – are
consecrated and non-Parsees are not allowed inside.

Coming back to the Bhubaneshwar temples, where the incidents occurred
in November, we find that an American lady, Pamela Fleig and her
husband, Anil Kumar Yadav of U.P. whom she had married, after
"becoming a Hindu" under the Arya Samaj rites in June 2005, at
Varanasi, went to the 11th century Lingaraj temple, but were denied
entry, as the temple has never allowed a foreigner to enter in the
past. Twice the couple was denied entry, after which they lodged a
police complaint. All that the police could do, was register a case.
"It is a religious matter and we cannot help the couple enter the
temple. It is the temple authorities that can grant them the
permission," said the police officer.

The more important factor is that though the Shankaracharya of Puri
intervened later, the temple priests would not relent.:

An object lesson for some of our buzdil priests, who, even if they
don't encourage entry by aliens, do not have the guts to stop wrong
persons from entering the sacred Fire Temple! Thai Princess, Too!

As if this was not enough, a little later, the other famous temple in
Orissa, the Jagannath temple of Puri, also refused permission to the
Indira Gandhi Prize for Peace winner, the Princess of Thailand, Mahee
Chakri Sirindhorn.!

A senior temple official told the Time of India News Network: "This
has been a practice for centuries".

In this case, the Central Government itself had sought a clarification
from the Orissa government, whether the Princess would be allowed
entry into the 12th century temple. Said the official, "We consulted
the temple's body of priests and

pundits, who did not agree." Bravo!

Converted Hindus, Buddhists and Jains from other countries are not
allowed inside this temple!! Champions of "World Body of Zoroastrians"
should take careful note!

Non-Hindus Not Welcome In Guruvayur Temple In Kerala.

As if all this was not enough, the DNA. Sunday edition of 20th
November, 2005, reported that the famed Shree Krishna temple in
Guruvayur, in Thiruvananthapuram, performed repeated 15 pujas for a
marathon six and a half hour session on Saturday, 19th November.

Why ? Because the priests found that a non-Hindu had been present in
the temple for five days!............................"

The Parsee Voice

e-mail: theparseevoice@yahoo.com

Trust that this missive is taken in the right spirit and that
commonsense prevails on the Zuwaks / Radicals of Zoroastrianism whose
adage seems to be "DIVIDE AND RULE WITH VITRIOL, FOR WE HAVE
BEEN ORDAINED WITH MIRACULOUS POWERS TO INTRODUCE SWEEPING CHANGES IN
ZOROASTRIANISM BY VIRTUE OF OUR IMPURE AURA, INCORRECT KNOWLEDGE OF
ZOROASTRIANISM AND OUR FALSE BELIEFS" TO "BENEFIT ALL ZOROASTRIANS".
THAT HEDONISM IS PREFERRED TO A RELIGIOUS WAY OF LIFE....

Sincerely yours,

Mrs PERVIN R KAVARANA

Thursday, February 7, 2008

What really happened at Antia's talk on 2nd Feb

From: TZML Admins
Date: Feb 7, 2008 7:52 PM
Subject: What really happened at Antia's talk on 2nd Feb
To: TZML <TraditionalZarathushtris@yahoogroups.com>

HUMATA HUKHTA JHAVARASHTRA

Dear Zarathushti humdins,
cc: Vada Dasturjis,
cc: Ervad Sahebs,
cc: The Parsee Voice,
cc: Zoroastrian Studies,
cc: Parsi Pukar,
cc: Dini-Awaz,
cc: Prominent Zoroastrians,
cc: TZML
cc: TMYZ officials
forwarded to you is a very informative report by Mrs. Pervin J Mistry
on what actually happened at the Antia talk on 2nd Feb.

We are glad that Parsis made a dignified protest on what is a
non-issue in the Zoroastrian religion, viz "Acceptance" / "Conversion"

Conversion is a big "Con" played on trusting people. If
non-Zoroastrians like the teachings of our Prophet, they can always
read our Scriptures and put its lofty message in their daily life to
help them become better human beings. But formal "conversion" or
proselytism is not sanctioned.

And please do not forget - on 15th Feb, the Vada Dasturjis are going
to give a press statement. They will be giving a public rebuttal to
Kersey Antia's "Acceptance in Zoroastrianism"

Date: Friday, 15h Feb 2008
Time: 6 pm
At: The Framjee Cowasjee Institute (Hall), Opposite Metrolabs, Dhobhi
Talao. Mumbai.

Meanwhile, please read below for what happened on 2nd Feb.

Sincerely
TZML Admins.

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: pervin mistry
Sent: Thursday, 7 February, 2008 12:33:11 PM
Subject: Antia gets a dose of his own medicine


Dear Friends,

There are some false rumors going around re the event of February 2,
2008 when Kersey Antia gave his speech.

First of all, there were no 'hooligans' present at this meeting on
February 2, at the Y.B. Chavan Auditorium. If anything, it is Kersey
Antia who got a dose of his own medicine and he should know this
better than others, being a psychiatrist himself!

At one of the North American Zoroastrian Congresses that FEZANA
organizes every 2 years, in Houston, when one of the Guest Speakers,
one of the learned Dasturjis who was invited from India to speak, was
giving his speech from the podium, it was this same Kersey Antia who
started shouting derogatory words to the Dasturji Saheb! Was he a
hooligan then? This time, he got a dose of his own medicine from those
who came to listen to him.

Besides, the 'hooligan' community in North America (there are many
polite and civil ones too) has always treated speakers who hold
traditional views with contempt. Shall we say the entire heterodox
community in North America is full of 'hooligans'? In North America ,
opposition has not been amicably tolerated. Often, in the past,
individuals have written their views in the FEZANA Journal as to how
these Congresses held and supported mainly the one sided view, the
heterodox view!

These are facts.

Here, on February 2, 2008, when Kersey Antia was delivering his
speech, the traditionalists did not disrupt his talk! In fact, when he
was speaking, everyone clapped when he correctly said that in the
Gathas, Ha 30, the choice is between the two Paths! After stating
this, he went directly into propagating 'acceptance'/conversion! It is
only when the questions were not being addressed that those who wanted
to ask about the choice between the two Paths as opposed to the choice
between the two religions ('acceptance'/conversion), and the refusal
to answer these, that some in the audience started shouting that the
questions must be answered, as promised at the start of the speech.

It was then that Antia was visibly shaken. Also, no one was thrown
out!!! People who wanted to ask questions themselves got up and left
because they did not want to see the video promoting conversion.

So, in the end, I would say that Kersey Antia got a dose of his own
medicine for himself behaving like a hooligan with a Dasturji at
Houston , in the past! And, no one was held, taken into custody as
falsely reported. Even the trustees of ARZ/AIMZ, Dr. Grant, Mr.
Jeejeebhoy, Mrs. Meher Amarsee and the Guest Speaker, Mr. DaCunha left
as soon as the question-answer session was over! And, it took 15
police to escort on so-called "Vada Dastur", Kersey Antia to his car?
This is unbelievable!

Sincerely,

Pervin J Mistry.

Tuesday, February 5, 2008

Salgrehs today on Behram roj, Sherevar mah of YZ 1377 (Tues, 5 Feb)

From: Tehemton B. Adenwalla
Date: Feb 5, 2008 6:23 AM
Subject: Salgrehs today on Behram roj, Sherevar mah of YZ 1377 (Tues, 5 Feb)
To: TZML <TraditionalZarathushtris@yahoogroups.com>


Baname Khuda!

Dear Zarathushti friends,
today is Behram roj, the month is Sherevar and the year YZ 1377.

We have the Salgrehs of these agiaries:

Seth Nusservanji Hirji Karani Adarian at Cusrow Baug, Colaba, Mumbai.

This adarian was consecrated in the year YZ 1216 (1847) and is 161
years old today.

Lady Avabai Jamshedji Jeejebhoy Adarian, Malesar, Navsari


This adarian was consecrated in the year YZ 1222 (1853) and is 155
years old today.


Seth Nusservanji Ratanji Tata Adarian, Bandra, Mumbai


This adarian was consecrated in the year YZ 1253 (1884) and is 123
years old today.

If you are visiting any of these salgreh functions, do send us a report.

Last year, Mr Behram Dhabhar attended the Karani Agiary (Cusrow Baug)
celebrations and mentioned that there was a jashan in the Haavan geh,
followed by a speech of Dasturji Kotwal recited by Ervad Aspandiar
Dadachangi. The Vada Dasturjis - Dasturji Kotwal, Dasturji Peshotan
Mirza and Dasturji Jamaspasa were also present.

So there it is in a nutshell - Salgreh functons are a good chance to
charge one's spiritual batteries. The more we attend, the better for
the Agiary, for the community spirit and for ourselves.

Sincerely

Tehemton B. Adenwalla

Saturday, February 2, 2008

ARZ's mistruths will be paraded today. Yet, we thank Vada Dasturjis for guiding us

From: TZML Admins
Date: Feb 2, 2008 3:43 PM
Subject: ARZ's mistruths will be paraded today. Yet, we thank Vada
Dasturjis for guiding us
To: TZML <TraditionalZarathushtris@yahoogroups.com>


PLEASE FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO ALL SINCERE AND GOOD ZARATHUSHTIS
WHO WILL BENEFIT FROM IT

Sarosh roj

2 Feb 2008

Dear Zarathushti humdins,
cc: Vada Dasturjis,
cc: Ervad Sahebs,
cc: The Parsee Voice,
cc: Zoroastrian Studies,
cc: Parsi Pukar,
cc: Dini-Awaz,
cc: Prominent Zoroastrians,
cc: TZML
cc: TMYZ officials

today is Saturday, the 2nd of February.

ARZ have arranged a meeting in Mumbai where they have invited a
"defrocked" priest from USA, Kersey Antia, who incurred the wrath and
censure of his superiors when he attempted to convert a white
Christian in the 80s.

That the Zoroastrian religion does not have "conversion" (or
"acceptance" as it has been called to make it more agreeable) is a
fact of Nature. The only conversion spoken of in the Gathas is the
conversion of one's evil mentality into good thoughts.

No prophet, Zarathushtra or otherwise, would exhort his followers to
convert from an established religion and start practising another
religion. All the Prophets are well versed in the master Plan of God,
which has different religions for different groups of mankind. A
person is born into a particular religion and it is his/her duty to be
loyal to it till death.

The only reason ARZ, in their finite wisdom, have pushed "conversion"
through costly adverts in the Parsee press, is that they can please
the rich intermarrieds who have non-Zoroastrian spouses. That is
accurately confirmed since ARZ openly supports the Association of
Intermarried Zoroastrians, who has Meher Amarsey and others as its
spokesperson.

The real Vada Dasturjis, God bless them, have clearly disassociated
from the ARZ group and have clearly conveyed their displeasure at its
acts. That is why ARZ have resorted to desperate measures like getting
a forgotten priest from USA, Kersey Antia and brandish him as a "Vada
Dastur".

We have also heard, and perhaps those who attend today's meeting will
confirm this, that ARZ is going to pay some monetary allurements to
the mobeds who will attend today's meeting out of curiosity.

We also predict that ARZ will claim in tomorrow's papers that the
"meeting was a huge success". A large number of photos will be
published and a huge write-ups will be written. The un-wise will
congratulate the blind in an attempt to mislead the innocent members
of our community.

But, dear friends, you do not have to fall in this trap. Over the last
few days, we have been sharing many articles written by true
Zarathshti scholars and Vada Dasturjis, showing how wrong ARZ are. The
true Zarathushti publications too have protested against ARZ.

But this too shall pass.

Those who are attending today's meeting, do so, and see for yourself
how money and misguided interests can cause people to take a wrong
path.

Do send us a report / email to show your displeasure at the
proceedings and how our Zarathushti religion's teachings of
"no-conversion", "no-intermarriage" will be distorted today.

And those who will not be attending the meeting, well done, good on
you to show your displeasure and boycotting it.

We thank all of you for your patience and for forwarding the many
emails we send to your friends and relatives so that they are not
misled.

We pray that Ahura Mazda and Sarosh Yazad protect our community.

Sincerely
TZML Admins.
(Email: tzmladmn@gmail.com)

PLEASE FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO ALL SINCERE AND GOOD ZARATHUSHTIS
WHO WILL BENEFIT FROM IT

Salgrehs on Sarosh roj, Sherevar mah, YZ 1377 - Sat, 2nd Feb, 2008

From: Tehemton B. Adenwalla
Date: Feb 2, 2008 12:08 PM
Subject: Salgrehs on Sarosh roj, Sherevar mah, YZ 1377 - Sat, 2nd Feb, 2008
To: TZML <TraditionalZarathushtris@yahoogroups.com>

Baname Khuda!

Dear Zarathushti humdins,

today is Sarosh roj of Sherevar mah in the Yezdegari year 1377.

There are Salgrehs of quite a few agiaries today (6), and here is the list:

* Seth Jeejebhoy Dadabhoy Adarian - Colaba, Mumbai

This Adarian situated at the southern tip of Mumbai at Colaba was
consecrated way back in YZ 1205 (AD 1836) and is therefore 172 years
old.

* Seth Hormasji Dadabhoy Saher Adarian - Breach Candy, Mumbai

The Saher Adarian was consecrated in the year YZ 1215 (AD 1846) and is
therefore 162 years old.

* Ghamat Adarian - Bhatha, near Surat ((Choriasi Taluka)

This Adarian was consecrated in the year YZ 1231 and is 146 years old.

* Baug-e-Parsa Adarian - Surat

This Adarian situated at Khatki wad at Surat was consecrated in the
year YZ 1265 (AD 1896) and is 112 years old.

* Seth Faramji Cawasji Contractor Adarian - Vadodra (Baroda), Gujarat

The Contractor Adarian at Vadodra was consecrated in the year YZ 1293
(AD 1924) and is 84 years old.

* Faramji and Dorabji Hormusji Gazder Dadgah - Chikli, near Billimora
/ Gandevi, Gujarat

The Gazder Agiary (Dadgah) was consecrated in the year YZ 1243 (AD
1874) and is 134 years old.


If you would be attending the Salgreh function, then send us a report
of the proceedings.

Photos of the occasion too are welcome.

Sincerely
Tehemton B. Adenwalla

Friday, February 1, 2008

Dastur Dr. Peshotan Dastur Hormazdyar Mirza on Kersey Antia and conversion

From: The Parsee Voice
Date: Feb 1, 2008 1:52 PM
Subject: Dastur Dr. Peshotan Dastur Hormazdyar Mirza on Kersey Antia
and conversion
To: Hushang Vakil

As a result of Kersey Antia's lecture and the showing of the film on
Saturday evening, our learned and rightful Dasturji Sahebs are
cautioning the community regarding the scriptural truth and the
dangers of conversion, indirectly called 'Acceptance'! Please be aware
and do pass this on to all your friends, relatives and neighbours. The
religiously ignorant and the gullible will accept deceitful lies
propagated by Kersey Antia and his likes. Let the Dasturjis and the
Scholar Priests spread the Truth regarding conversion and
'acceptance'!

Please circulate through e-mails and also by printing out this
circular which will be distributed today in baugs and colonies. Every
one of you can do your share by circulating this mail/leaflet. Thank
you.

The Board of TMYZ.
.........................................................................................

Antia's ahrmoghi (heresy) of 1983 raises its ugly head again on
February 2, 2008.

Parsis Beware!

Ervad Kersey Antia of Chicago is trying to mislead the gullible of the
Parsi-Irani Zarathushti community in India with help from the two
associations named ARZ and AIMZ.

Ervad Antia was condemned by the Dasturjis and the athornans of India
in 1983 when he so-called converted Mr. Joseph Peterson in New York,
U.S.A. He was also publicly disowned by his Alma Mater, the M. F. Cama
Athornan Institute. On February 2, 2008, a quarter century later, he
is stepping on Indian soil to promote his ill-conceived heretical
concept of conversion.

Ervad Antia should realize that the Christian Missionaries are
murdered in India for their proselyting zeal. When Pope John Paul II
visited India he had to retract his statement regarding conversion. He
clarified that he referred to the moral conversion only! The Hindus do
not accept conversion which is forbidden in their religious scriptures
such as the Bhagvad Gita. The Parsi-Irani Zarathushti community is
respected in India and throughout the world because we respect all
religions and practice the true brotherhood by not accepting
proselytes. When we first landed at Sanjan in the 7th century A.C.E.
we were accepted by Jadi Rana because we, like the Hindus, did not
practice conversion as per our religious mandate. Till today, we have
not practiced conversion in India and the Hindus accept us as good
citizens of India!

Ervad Kersey Antia is jeopardizing the lives of our brethren in Iran
and worldwide by coming to India and propagating conversion in a
public forum. The mullahs in Iran are not at all in favor of Muslims
being converted to other religions. Recently, a Muslim was given
public hanging in Tehran because he admitted that he had converted to
Zarathushtrianism. The Muslims in Iran will come to know of Kersey
Antia's so-called 'acceptance' propagation and who will save
Zarathushti lives in Iran and elsewhere if Muslims begin to convert
themselves here in India? If he is sincere and sure of his scriptural,
historical and other references that promote conversion, he should
first go to Iran, deliver his speech there, convert some Muslims in
Iran and then target the gullible Parsis of India who may blindly
accept his conversion-mania! We hope the Parsi-Irani Zarathushti
community will realize how precariously dangerous any conversion
activity will prove for the community in India and Iran, especially
since we are such a small community with no defense mechanism and no
country of our own!

Please read carefully and acquaint yourselves with what the Holy
Avesta reveals regarding conversion/acceptance of juddins (followers
of other revealed religions) as 'Zarathushtis'!

•Conversion means to convert, to change. Customarily, one converts to
something better. If "to convert" means to change one's religion of
birth then there is no such word existing in the entire sacred Avesta
to indicate changing or giving up one's religion of birth to 'accept'
another religion.

•The only conversion the sacred Avesta mentions, specifically in the
Ahunavad Gatha, Y. Ha 30, is to convert Angre-Mainyu to Spenta-Mainyu!
Y. Ha 30.2 mentions only the two moral choices which are further
defined in Y. Ha 30.3 as the choice between good and bad only.
Emphasis is laid on the moral choice without which spiritual progress
would be stagnant. The freedom to choose comes with grave moral
responsibility. Irrefutably, only the two specific moral paths are
revealed and the inevitable consequences of the choice between the two
paths is repeatedly mentioned as Divine Justice or the immutable law
of reward and punishment, i.e. good to the good and suffering to those
who choose the wrong path. There is absolutely NO mention of the word
'religion(s)'.

•Different religions are different prescriptive medicines for the
soul. It is not the name of the religion that makes an individual
spiritually progressive. It is in following the path laid down by the
prophet of a specific religion the individual is born into that makes
the individual spiritually enlightened. The learned, e.g. Swami
Vivekananda, Mahatma Gandhi and others have maintained that
proselytism hinders spiritual progress.

•Proselytism/acceptance leads to hatred and wars. Religious riots,
genocide, holocausts, jihads, crusades and human misery and strife are
the cause of religious rivalry stemming from the act of proselytism.
Proselytism advances the belief that one particular religion is
superior to the others and therefore those who promote conversion
insist that mankind must adopt only one particular religion. This is
against the Divine Plan as revealed in the Zarathushtrian scriptures.

•Religion is bestowed at birth by Lord Almighty. Y. Ha 19 reveals the
sacred Ahunavar manthra in detail. It reveals that as soon as Ahura
Mazda uttered the Divine Word, Ahunavar, the Universe became manifest.
Y. Ha 19.14 clearly states that: "There are five faiths or religions,
pancha tkaesha, which enlighten." In Y. Ha 19.16 the words pancha
ratu, meaning the five leaders appears. This proves that the Divine
Will has manifested the five main religions and prophets for the
spiritual benefit of the varied needs of humanity. We are taught that
an individual is born in a certain family, in a specific religion
according to the Divine Plan. Conversion from religion to religion,
therefore, goes against the Divine Will, against the soul's spiritual
progress and creates disorder in the basic Law of Nature. For this
reason the Bagvad Gita also admonishes, "para dharma maha bhay",
meaning, adopting a different religion is spiritually perilous.

•Asho Zarathushtra did not convert individuals from religion to
religion. He lived and preached Ahura Mazda's Revelation during the
Kiyani Dynasty. There were no conversions during the Peshdad and
Kiyani dynasties. Both are considered to be pre-historic dynasties
when only the Mazdayasni Din existed. There were no other established
religions to convert from! Asho Zarathushtra put back on the right
path those Mazdayasnis who had deviated from the Path of Asha and were
led into following some Devayasni practices. King Vishtasp was a
Mazdayasni who accepted Asho Zarathushtra's teaching. Asho
Zarathushtra renovated and restored the Mazdayasni Din to its pristine
form and thus our religion came to be known as the Mazdayasni
Zarathushti Din. At a tender age of 7 or 9, at navjote, a Parsi-Irani
Zarathushti child confesses: "Mazdayasno ahmi mazdayasno
Zarathushtrish", meaning, "I am a Mazdayasni (by birth) and a
Mazdayasni follower of Zarathushtra".

•During the Achaemenian Dynasty also, the Parsi Kings did not convert
the followers of other revealed religions. Cyrus the Great liberated
the Jews from the Babylonian captivity and granted them complete
religious freedom and even rebuilt the Temple of Solomon from his own
treasury. For this, Cyrus is remembered in the Old Testament as a
'Messiah'. Cyrus could have converted all the conquered people but
according to the religious tenets, he did not! Darius also did not
convert the subjects of the 28 Nations he ruled. Adhering to the
fundamental tenet of boonak pasbani or preservation of the 'gene',
tokham, he has carved his genealogy in the famous inscription at
Naqsh-i Rustom: "Parsa parsahya puthra arya ariyachithra", meaning (I
am) a Parsi, the son of a Parsi, an Irani, of Irani lineage! To even
remotely think that our ancestors practiced proselytism is to defame
their names!

•The Sassanians did not convert other followers but stray instances
happened among the nobility in later times when the Empire became
decadent. This resulted in the weakening of the Empire from within due
to religious rivalry, treason, religious riots, patricide, fratricide
and the end of the Empire came swiftly. In the last four years of the
Empire, before Yazdgard III ascended the throne, ten monarchs ruled
over Iran!

•History records that the only group of Parsi-Irani Zarathushtis to
survive outside of Iran is the one which came to Sanjan with the sole
purpose of protecting and preserving the religion as was practiced
since time immemorial in Iran. The Parsi-Irani Zarathushti community
flourished in India only because it preserved its religion and
religious identity.
•Groups who left Iran for Europe, China and other parts of Eurasia
did not preserve the religion. They converted, intermarried and got
wiped out. Today, the memory of their existence survives through some
archeological evidences that stand as mute testimony to the groups of
Zarathushtis who left Iran during and after the Arab conquest. They
left Iran to escape the inhuman persecutions and oppression they
suffered at the hands of the Arab conquerors but got assimilated into
other host religions and cultures due to the open-door policy of
conversion and intermarriage.

•In 1983, Ervad Kersey Antia of Chicago so-called converted Mr.
Joseph Peterson. Ervad Antia, in his attempt to introduce and promote
proselytism, states in his treatise "The Argument for Acceptance" that
"it is contrary to present Parsi practice or politics." He forgets
that the Avesta does not mention proselytism but only the ethical
conversion of converting vices to virtues; that Asho Zarathushtra did
not convert any followers of any other religions; that the practice is
alien to our religion which is a non-missionary religion; that during
the worst times the Zarathushtis faced in Iran immediately after the
Arab conquest, the Din-Dasturs of Iran have described us in the
Pahlavi Dinkard as "tokhmak paspaan", preservers of the genetic seed!
It is not only after coming to India that we do not convert but
throughout the interminable millennia long history of our religion,
we, as a religious community, have not converted the followers of
other revealed religions.

•For our small community to open its doors to conversion/acceptance
is to inevitably toll our own death knell. The converts will outnumber
the true Parsi-Irani Zarathushtis and they will dictate to us based
upon what they will add from their own religions, customs and
traditions. Our survival does not depend upon numbers. It depends upon
unity within the community and in continuing to practice the
time-tested rituals, customs and traditions as we have inherited these
since countless generations and upon which our survival depended till
today. No community survives that has moved away from its doctrinal
and traditional usages. Today, we have no enemies threatening our
survival from outside but the destruction comes from within. This is
the greatest threat we have faced so far in our long history of
survival, despite all odds.

•In order to justify conversion/acceptance of juddins, Ervad Antia's
ilk discard the Vendidad with its moral and hygienic code and declare
it to be "unZarathushtrian"; "written by the Babylonians"; they call
the sacred Nirang, "bull-piss"; the sacred health-giving Hom is
mentioned by them as "mind-altering", "intoxicating", and "bhang"; the
gays and the homosexuals who are not wanted in their religions are
accepted by them into ours! O Parsis! Is this the altered, mutilated
religion you wish to pass down to the future generations? Our
ancestors sealed their fate in blood and some left their beloved
homeland, Iran, to protect, preserve, to hand down to us our great
religion. We are the preservers of our religion, of our ancient Kiyani
tokham! Let us not open the flood gates to converts who will
inevitably alter our traditions, customs, rituals and scriptures.
Conversion is anti-Zarathushtrian. It is not propagated in the sacred
Avesta.

•Acclaimed, distinguished European scholars who studied the Avestan
and Pahlavi languages and dedicated their life to the study of the
sacred Avesta never converted themselves to our religion. They
recognize that the Avesta does not mention proselytism but only the
ethical conversion, and they also know how dangerous the outcome will
be to the small Parsi-Irani Zarathushti community if we accept the
so-called 'converts'.

•For a better understanding of our scriptures and the problem of
conversion, please read: 1) "Conversion Caucus", by Dasturji Dr.
Hormazdyar Dastur Kayoji Mirza, 2) "Conversion in Zoroastrianism _ A
Myth Exploded" and 3) "Antia's 'Acceptance': A Zoroastrian Ahrmoghi
(Heresy)", jointly written by Dasturji Dr. Hormazdyar Dastur Kayoji
Mirza, Dasturji Dr. Kaikhushroo Minocher JamaspAsa and Dasturji Dr.
Firoze Meherji Kotwal. In addition, we urge you to read "Outlines of
Parsi History" and "Some Problems facing the Parsi Community" by
Dasturji Dr. Hormazdyar Dastur Kayoji Mirza; "Zoroastrianism _ Ancient
& Modern" by Ervad Phiroze S. Masani and the booklet "Acceptance _
Never Ever!" published by Rustom A. Irani.

Education is our best weapon against din-dushmani!

Dastur Dr. Peshotan Dastur Hormazdyar Mirza for and on behalf of all
other Dasturs and Scholar Priests of India.

Salgrehs on Sarosh roj (2nd Feb) and Behram roj (5 Feb) in this Sherevar mah of YZ 1377

From: Tehemton B. Adenwalla
Date: Feb 1, 2008 5:51 AM
Subject: Salgrehs on Sarosh roj (2nd Feb) and Behram roj (5 Feb) in
this Sherevar mah of YZ 1377
To: TZML <TraditionalZarathushtris@yahoogroups.com>


Baname Khuda!

Dear Zarathjushti humdins,

tomorrow on Sarosh roj of Sherevar mah (Sat, 2 Feb 2008) are the
Salgrehs of many agiaries.

Later, on Behram roj (Tue, 5 Feb 2008) are a few more Salgrehs.

Here is the list:

Sarosh roj (Sat, 2 Feb 2008)
- J J Dadabhoy Agiary, Colaba, Mumbai
- Saher Agiary, Warden Road, Breach Candy, Mumai
- Bag-e-Parsa Adarian, Surat
- Faramji Cawasji Contractor Agiary, Vadodra (Baroda), Gujarat
- New Ghamat Daremeher, Bhatha
- Guzder Dadgah, Chikli, near Billimora/Gandevi, Gujarat
- Banoo Rustom Farokh Daremeher, Kerman, Iran

Behram roj (Tue, 5 Feb 2008)
- Karani Daremeher, Cusrow Bau, Mumbai
- Tata Agiary, Bandra
- Lady Avabhai J Jeejebhoy Adarian, Malesar, Navsari

Sincerely
Tehemton B. Adenwalla

On 1/20/08, Tehemton B. Adenwalla <tba@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> Baname Khuda!
>
> Dear Zarathushti humdins,
>
> today is Sherevar roj, Sherevar mah, a parabh day in the year 1377.
>
> Sherevar is one of the seven Ahmeshaspands and His sovereignity is over the mineral kingdom.
>
> The co-workers of Sherevar Ahmeshaspand are:
> * Khorshed Yazad
> * Meher Yazad
> * Mino Aasman
> * Mino Aneran
>
> Is there any Sherevar-nu-Parabh jashan in any agiary today.
>
> The Salgrehs of Agiaries in this month are as follows:
>
> Ardibehest roj (Sat, 19 Jan 2008)
> - The Bai Dhunbai and Cawasji Dadabhai Daremehr (Dadgah), Bangalore
>
> Asfandard roj (Mon, 21 Jan 2008)
> - Ardeshir B Patel Agiary (Dadgah) at Salsette Baug, Andheri, Mumbai
>
> Dae-pa-dar roj (Thurs, 24 Jan 2008)
> - The M N Maneckji Daremeher, Daman
>
> Adar roj (Fri, 25 Jan 2008)
> - Anjuman Daremeher, Mhow / Indore, Madhya Pradesh
> - Irani Daremeher, Dahanu
>
> Meher roj (Fri, 1 Feb 2008)
> - Kadmi Meherangan Jashan
>
> Sarosh roj (Sat, 2 Feb 2008)
> - J J Dadabhoy Agiary, Colaba, Mumbai
> - Saher Agiary, Warden Road, Breach Candy, Mumai
> - Bag-e-Parsa Adarian, Surat
> - Faramji Cawasji Contractor Agiary, Vadodra (Baroda), Gujarat
> - New Ghamat Daremeher, Bhatha
> - Guzder Dadgah, Chikli, near Billimora/Gandevi, Gujarat
> - Banoo Rustom Farokh Daremeher, Kerman, Iran
>
> Behram roj (Tue, 5 Feb 2008)
> - Karani Daremeher, Cusrow Bau, Mumbai
> - Tata Agiary, Bandra
> - Lady Avabhai J Jeejebhoy Adarian, Malesar, Navsari
>
> Astad roj (Mon, 11 Feb 2008)
> *** Paeteshhem Gahambar (Shahenshahi ) ***
> *** Ayathrem Gahambar (Kadmi) ***
>
> Aasman roj (Tue, 12 Feb 2008)
> - Dumas Daremeher, Gujarat
>
> If there are any errors or omissions in the above mini-calendar, please let us know.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Sincerely,
> Tehemton B. Adenwalla

>
>
>