Do not foget the Vada Dasturji's public lecture tomorrow .Why "Acceptance" (Conversion) is not acceptable will be explained

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: TZML Admins
Date: Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 7:18 PM
Subject: Do not foget the Vada Dasturji's public lecture tomorrow .Why
"Acceptance" (Conversion) is not acceptable will be explained
To: TZML <TraditionalZarathushtris@yahoogroups.com>

PLEASE CIRCULATE THIS EMAIL TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES SO THAT
THEY ARE NOT FOOLED BY THE MIS-GUIDED PROPAGANDA APPEARING IN OUR
PARSI PAPERS

HUMATA HUKHTA HAVARASHTA

14 Feb 2008

Dear Zarathushti humdins,
cc: Vada Dasturjis,
cc: Ervad Sahebs,
cc: The Parsee Voice,
cc: Zoroastrian Studies,
cc: Parsi Pukar,
cc: Dini-Awaz,
cc: Prominent Zoroastrians,
cc: TZML
cc: TMYZ officials

tomorrow on Friday, 15th Feb, our Vada Dasturjis and Ervad Sahebs will
be speaking on correcting the mis-truths spread by Kersey Antia and
ARZ.

Please attend the lecture and give your full support to the Dasturjis
and Ervad Sahebs and the organisers of this meet.

It is important that as a community we stay united instead of being
trapped by all this mumbo-jumbo by some misguided members of our
community who have been repeatedly told that "the only 'conversion'
mentioned in the Gathas is conversion of one's evil mentality and
vices into good mentality and virtues". ARZ have also been told by
honest scholars of Zoroastrianism that "each person is born within a
religion predestined before birth and one is not to convert one's
religion in one's life time".

But ARZ will not listen to sane advice since their (main) agenda is to
make intermarried children part of our community in a mis-guided and
naive way to increase the community population. ARZ have teamed with
AIMZ, which stands for Association of Intermarried Zoroastrians, and
one need not say anything further. You make your own conclusions.

ARZ have also sent their lop-sided interview conducted in Jame to none
other than Ali Jafarey, a Muslim from Pakistan now settled in USA, and
who has made it a business to "convert" Irani Muslims, Christians,
Catholics, Venezuelans, Latinos, Brazilians and any and every one who
will pay the fees. (see enclosed picture).

Some of you may not be aware that a few years ago Jafarey registered
himself as a "Zoroastrian priest". And it was a Jafarey supporter who
maligned our holy Nirang and called it "bull-piss'. Such is their lack
of understanding of the majestic Zoroastrian religion.

We have also included a screen-shot from the documentary of Tenaz
Dubash which was featured after the talk of Antia on 2nd Feb. That
documentary talks to intermarried couples, but we know from our Holy
Vendidad, the Husparam Nask, the Patet Pashemani etc and also from the
Vada Dasturjis that intermarriage of any kind (male or female) is not
sanctioned by the Zarathushti religion. (see enclosed picture)

So much for ARZ's religious links. We have shown you their alliances
and now you make up your own mind as to how this group is set to ruin
our community, our traditions and tenets which have allowed it to
survive for more than a thousand years in India.

The only solution from all this madness and mayhem is to return to the
path of marrying within the community only.

This applies to both males and females. Males do not get any leeway
here, they are bound by the same rules as females.

And children of both male and intermarried Parsis are not Zarathushtis.

This should be the stance we all traditional minded people should take
and that will keep us united and ethnically strong. Never mind the
current small numbers, the numbers will swell up when the right time
in Nature comes for such an event.

Meanwhile lets do our best, be faithful to our religion and its
tenets, and nothing nor anybody - ARZ, Antia or Ali - can cause any
harm. Let them splash their false messages in expensive tabloids,
after some time Nature will take its own course, and these people will
be shown the true path by Ahura Mazda Himself.

Those who can must attend the public lecture at the Framji Cawasjee
Institute at Dhobi Talao, Mumbai.

Below is reproduced the itinerary of the public talk.

With best wishes
TZML Admins

please see below and also the attachment)

Dasturjis & Scholar Priests Speak Out:
Acceptance / Conversion Not Acceptable

Date: Friday, 15th February 2008

Time: 6 p.m.

Place: Framjee Cawasjee Institute (Hall)
Opposite the Metro Adlabs, Dhobi Talao, Mumbai

Event: Dasturjis Public Meeting.

Our learned Dasturjis and Religious Scholar Priests will give a
public rebuttal against Acceptance/Conversi on in Zoroastrianism.

Buses will be available from:

Dadar, Rustomframna Agiary starting at 4 p.m.
Parel, Tata Colony, from Police Chowky, Firdoshi, 4:15 p.m. Lalbaug,
A.H.Wadia Baug, near the main gate, 4: 30 p.m.

Navroze Baug, near the main entrance, 4 p.m.
Rustom Baug, near the main entrance, 4:30 p.m.
Jer Baug, near the main entrance, 4:45 p.m.

Cama Park, near the main entrance, 3 p.m.
Shapur Bharucha Baug, near the entrance, 3:15 p.m.
Panthaky Baug, near the main entrance, 3:45 p.m.

Buses will not be able to make long halts for pick ups.

Light refreshments will be provided.

PLEASE CIRCULATE THIS EMAIL TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES SO THAT
THEY ARE NOT FOOLED BY THE MIS-GUIDED PROPAGANDA APPEARING IN OUR
PARSI PAPERS

Public lecture by Vada Dasturjis and Ervad Sahebs - DO NOT MISS IT - Fri, 15th February

From: TZML Admins
Date: Feb 12, 2008 8:27 PM
Subject: Public lecture by Vada Dasturjis and Ervad Sahebs - DO NOT
MISS IT - Fri, 15th February
To: TZML <TraditionalZarathushtris@yahoogroups.com>

PLEASE CIRCULATE THIS EMAIL TO ALL GOOD AND TRADITIONAL MINDED
ZARATHUSHTIS YOU KNOW SO THAT THEY CAN ATTEND TO THE LECTURES BY VADA
DASTURJIS

HUMATA HUKHTA HAVARASHTA

12 Feb 2008

Dear Zarathushti humdins,
cc: Vada Dasturjis,
cc: Ervad Sahebs,
cc: The Parsee Voice,
cc: Zoroastrian Studies,
cc: Parsi Pukar,
cc: Dini-Awaz,
cc: Prominent Zoroastrians,
cc: TZML
cc: TMYZ officials

Our dear Vada Dasturjis and Ervad Sahebs from Mumbai have taken upon
themselves the noble task to guide our community on religious issues.
They will be doing so in a few days time in Mumbai and explaining to
our community brethren that "Acceptance", "Conversion" and other such
mis-truths propounded by ARZ and Kersey Antia have no place in our
wonderful Zoroastrian religion.

We request all humdins who can make it to go to the lecture and listen
to the good religious facts which will be conveyed in this meeting.

We are also enclosing the anouncement as it appeared on the Parsee affairs page.

Date: Friday, 15h Feb 2008
Time: 6 pm
At: The Framjee Cowasjee Institute (Hall), Opposite Metrolabs, Dhobhi
Talao. Mumbai.

Please remember that if anyone attempts to misguide you by mentioning
that to have gender equality we must give the same concessions to
intermarried women and their children, just turn around and say: "What
the intermarried men do is also not correct, the damage should be
stopped by both the sexes".

Meaning: We do not accept intermarriages of both Parsi men and Parsi
women. We do not accept children of such mixed marriages in the fold.
Their 'naojotes" are religiously invalid. That is the LAW of our
religion.

Let us once again thank the Vada Dasturjis, our Ervad Sahebs and the
organisers of the public lecture on Fri, the 15th February.

Please attend in large numbers to not only support our community
against misguided people like ARZ, but to also learn much about the
inner details of our religion.

With best wishes
TZML Admins
(please see below and also the attachment)

Dasturjis & Scholar Priests Speak Out:
Acceptance / Conversion Not Acceptable

Date: Friday, 15th February 2008

Time: 6 p.m.

Place: Framjee Cawasjee Institute (Hall)
Opposite the Metro Adlabs, Dhobi Talao, Mumbai

Event: Dasturjis Public Meeting.

Our learned Dasturjis and Religious Scholar Priests will give a
public rebuttal against Acceptance/Conversi on in Zoroastrianism.

Buses will be available from:

Dadar, Rustomframna Agiary starting at 4 p.m.
Parel, Tata Colony, from Police Chowky, Firdoshi, 4:15 p.m. Lalbaug,
A.H.Wadia Baug, near the main gate, 4: 30 p.m.

Navroze Baug, near the main entrance, 4 p.m.
Rustom Baug, near the main entrance, 4:30 p.m.
Jer Baug, near the main entrance, 4:45 p.m.

Cama Park, near the main entrance, 3 p.m.
Shapur Bharucha Baug, near the entrance, 3:15 p.m.
Panthaky Baug, near the main entrance, 3:45 p.m.

Buses will not be able to make long halts for pick ups.

Light refreshments will be provided.

PLEASE CIRCULATE THIS EMAIL TO ALL GOOD AND TRADITIONAL MINDED
ZARATHUSHTIS YOU KNOW SO THAT THEY CAN ATTEND TO THE LECTURES BY VADA
DASTURJIS

Public Meeting-Friday, 15-2-2008

From: The Parsee Voice
Date: Feb 9, 2008 3:29 PM
Subject: Public Meeting-Friday, 15-2-2008

Dasturjis & Scholar Priests Speak Out:
Acceptance / Conversion Not Acceptable

Date: Friday, 15th February 2008

Time: 6 p.m.

Place: Framjee Cawasjee Institute (Hall)
Opposite the Metro Adlabs, Dhobi Talao, Mumbai

Event: Dasturjis Public Meeting.

Our learned Dasturjis and Religious Scholar Priests will give a
public rebuttal against Acceptance/Conversion in Zoroastrianism.

Buses will be available from:

Dadar, Rustomframna Agiary starting at 4 p.m.
Parel, Tata Colony, from Police Chowky, Firdoshi, 4:15 p.m. Lalbaug,
A.H.Wadia Baug, near the main gate, 4: 30 p.m.

Navroze Baug, near the main entrance, 4 p.m.
Rustom Baug, near the main entrance, 4:30 p.m.
Jer Baug, near the main entrance, 4:45 p.m.
Cama Park, near the main entrance, 3 p.m.
Shapur Bharucha Baug, near the entrance, 3:15 p.m.
Panthaky Baug, near the main entrance, 3:45 p.m.

Buses will not be able to make long halts for pick ups.

Light refreshments will be provided.

Public Meeting-Friday, 15-2-2008

From: The Parsee Voice
Date: Feb 8, 2008 6:16 PM
Subject: Public Meeting-Friday, 15-2-2008
To: "Tehemton B. Adenwalla"

Dasturjis & Scholar Priests Speak Out:
Acceptance / Conversion Not Acceptable

Date: Friday, 15th February 2008

Time: 6 p.m.

Place: Framjee Cawasjee Institute (Hall)
Opposite the Metro Adlabs, Dhobi Talao, Mumbai

Event: Dasturjis Public Meeting.

Our learned Dasturjis and Religious Scholar Priests will give a
public rebuttal against Acceptance/Conversion in Zoroastrianism.

Buses will be available from:

Dadar, Rustomframna Agiary starting at 4 p.m.
Parel, Tata Colony, from Police Chowky, Firdoshi, 4:15 p.m. Lalbaug,
A.H.Wadia Baug, near the main gate, 4: 30 p.m.
Navroze Baug, near the main entrance, 4 p.m.
Rustom Baug, near the main entrance, 4:30 p.m.
Jer Baug, near the main entrance, 4:45 p.m.
Cama Park, near the main entrance, 3 p.m.
Shapur Bharucha Baug, near the entrance, 3:15 p.m.
Panthaky Baug, near the main entrance, 3:45 p.m.

Buses will not be able to make long halts for pick ups.

Light refreshments will be provided.

From Parsee Voice on Antia

From: The Parsee Voice
Date: Feb 8, 2008 2:07 PM
Subject: Fw: Antia
To: Tannaz Parakh

A message from one of our Traditionals.

_______________________________________________________________

Dear Sirs,

This is in response to the article entitled "Liberal Parsis take on
the Orthodox" penned by Sweta Ramanujan, which appeared in the HT
edition dated February 1, 2008.

The proverb "Ignorance Is Bliss" applies to these so-called Liberals
/ Radicals, who give one the impression of absurdity colouring their
thought patterns, apropos. These Rebels have donned the garb of a
Saviour or a Messiah of Zoroastrianism who seem to "know" the hows
and whys of this pristine religion without making an attempt to study
and cognize it.

To quote the co-founder of ARZ, Kersi Wadia : "Injustice is meted out
to inter-married Parsis….but the scriptures do not say anything like
this…They say the religion is universal…" This response from Kersi
Wadia sounds akin to a dialogue between two nursery kids fighting for
a lollipop !

I would like to ask Kersi Wadia apropos his "knowledge" of one of the
oldest religions of India - Zoroastrianism.

The opinions of these liberals are coloured with naivete and indicate
that they seem to be blissfully unaware of the VENDIDAD – details of
which are available on the internet, interalia, regarding
Zoroastrianism.

They have either not heard of or comprehended the meaning of
"jzirhum" , which is one of the main reasons why intermarriage cannot
be accepted, not only in Zoroastrianism, but in all religions, per se.
This concept applies to each and every religion. Man is not endowed
with cosmic powers to enable him to alter the message of the Prophets
of the religion of his birth.

A string of fancy degrees attached to names alongwith with pots full
of money and worldly luxuries do not bestow divine knowledge on
anybody and man has no authority whatsoever to modify either the text
or the meaning of the scriptures of ANY RELIGION ON EARTH MERELY TO
SUIT HIS WHIM & FANCY.

These "Liberals" are merely "refined idiots who lack commonsense"
and they are trying to woo the community members with loads of
FREEBIES merely to attend their meeting and witness them making total
fools of themselves. That if people decide to attend this meeting,
it will only be to procure "the FREEBIES", unlike community meetings
held by our High Priests in tandem with noted scholars of
Zoroastrianism, like Mr Adi Doctor and others, which are attended by
fellow Zoroastrians in L A R G E N U M B E R S WITHOUT ANY
FREE SNACKS OR BEVERAGES BEING GIVEN TO THEM MERELY TO ENTICE
THEM TO ATTEND SUCH MEETINGS.

That pamphlets enticing them with these FREEBIES have been dispatched
to all Parsi colonies / buildings in Bombay, pleading with them to
attend their "glorified" meeting.

In contrast, it would be advised that they thoroughly cognize
"Zoroastrianism" before worrying about our "dwindling numbers", for
purity is always preferred to adulteration, indubitably.

Here is an excerpt from the November 2005 edition of Parsee Voice,
which is self-explanatory:-

"In a section of the Hindu community in Bhubaneshwar, Orissa, which
are an eye-opener for the Parsee community and, particularly, for
those pernickety Parsees, like the trustees of ARZ or a panthaky or
two of certain Agiaries of Mumbai, In the month of November, certain
events took place who, because of ignorance, take pride in allowing a
non-Parsee spouse of a Parsee woman to attend the Zoroastrian
prayers/rituals performed in a temple or elsewhere.

It should be remembered that idols in a few Hindu temples only, are
consecrated. Therefore, non-Hindus are non-permitted there.

In the case of Parsee fire-temples, all of them having any or all of
the three categories of fires – Atash Behram, Adaran and Dadgah – are
consecrated and non-Parsees are not allowed inside.

Coming back to the Bhubaneshwar temples, where the incidents occurred
in November, we find that an American lady, Pamela Fleig and her
husband, Anil Kumar Yadav of U.P. whom she had married, after
"becoming a Hindu" under the Arya Samaj rites in June 2005, at
Varanasi, went to the 11th century Lingaraj temple, but were denied
entry, as the temple has never allowed a foreigner to enter in the
past. Twice the couple was denied entry, after which they lodged a
police complaint. All that the police could do, was register a case.
"It is a religious matter and we cannot help the couple enter the
temple. It is the temple authorities that can grant them the
permission," said the police officer.

The more important factor is that though the Shankaracharya of Puri
intervened later, the temple priests would not relent.:

An object lesson for some of our buzdil priests, who, even if they
don't encourage entry by aliens, do not have the guts to stop wrong
persons from entering the sacred Fire Temple! Thai Princess, Too!

As if this was not enough, a little later, the other famous temple in
Orissa, the Jagannath temple of Puri, also refused permission to the
Indira Gandhi Prize for Peace winner, the Princess of Thailand, Mahee
Chakri Sirindhorn.!

A senior temple official told the Time of India News Network: "This
has been a practice for centuries".

In this case, the Central Government itself had sought a clarification
from the Orissa government, whether the Princess would be allowed
entry into the 12th century temple. Said the official, "We consulted
the temple's body of priests and

pundits, who did not agree." Bravo!

Converted Hindus, Buddhists and Jains from other countries are not
allowed inside this temple!! Champions of "World Body of Zoroastrians"
should take careful note!

Non-Hindus Not Welcome In Guruvayur Temple In Kerala.

As if all this was not enough, the DNA. Sunday edition of 20th
November, 2005, reported that the famed Shree Krishna temple in
Guruvayur, in Thiruvananthapuram, performed repeated 15 pujas for a
marathon six and a half hour session on Saturday, 19th November.

Why ? Because the priests found that a non-Hindu had been present in
the temple for five days!............................"

The Parsee Voice

e-mail: theparseevoice@yahoo.com

Trust that this missive is taken in the right spirit and that
commonsense prevails on the Zuwaks / Radicals of Zoroastrianism whose
adage seems to be "DIVIDE AND RULE WITH VITRIOL, FOR WE HAVE
BEEN ORDAINED WITH MIRACULOUS POWERS TO INTRODUCE SWEEPING CHANGES IN
ZOROASTRIANISM BY VIRTUE OF OUR IMPURE AURA, INCORRECT KNOWLEDGE OF
ZOROASTRIANISM AND OUR FALSE BELIEFS" TO "BENEFIT ALL ZOROASTRIANS".
THAT HEDONISM IS PREFERRED TO A RELIGIOUS WAY OF LIFE....

Sincerely yours,

Mrs PERVIN R KAVARANA

What really happened at Antia's talk on 2nd Feb

From: TZML Admins
Date: Feb 7, 2008 7:52 PM
Subject: What really happened at Antia's talk on 2nd Feb
To: TZML <TraditionalZarathushtris@yahoogroups.com>

HUMATA HUKHTA JHAVARASHTRA

Dear Zarathushti humdins,
cc: Vada Dasturjis,
cc: Ervad Sahebs,
cc: The Parsee Voice,
cc: Zoroastrian Studies,
cc: Parsi Pukar,
cc: Dini-Awaz,
cc: Prominent Zoroastrians,
cc: TZML
cc: TMYZ officials
forwarded to you is a very informative report by Mrs. Pervin J Mistry
on what actually happened at the Antia talk on 2nd Feb.

We are glad that Parsis made a dignified protest on what is a
non-issue in the Zoroastrian religion, viz "Acceptance" / "Conversion"

Conversion is a big "Con" played on trusting people. If
non-Zoroastrians like the teachings of our Prophet, they can always
read our Scriptures and put its lofty message in their daily life to
help them become better human beings. But formal "conversion" or
proselytism is not sanctioned.

And please do not forget - on 15th Feb, the Vada Dasturjis are going
to give a press statement. They will be giving a public rebuttal to
Kersey Antia's "Acceptance in Zoroastrianism"

Date: Friday, 15h Feb 2008
Time: 6 pm
At: The Framjee Cowasjee Institute (Hall), Opposite Metrolabs, Dhobhi
Talao. Mumbai.

Meanwhile, please read below for what happened on 2nd Feb.

Sincerely
TZML Admins.

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: pervin mistry
Sent: Thursday, 7 February, 2008 12:33:11 PM
Subject: Antia gets a dose of his own medicine

Dear Friends,

There are some false rumors going around re the event of February 2,
2008 when Kersey Antia gave his speech.

First of all, there were no 'hooligans' present at this meeting on
February 2, at the Y.B. Chavan Auditorium. If anything, it is Kersey
Antia who got a dose of his own medicine and he should know this
better than others, being a psychiatrist himself!

At one of the North American Zoroastrian Congresses that FEZANA
organizes every 2 years, in Houston, when one of the Guest Speakers,
one of the learned Dasturjis who was invited from India to speak, was
giving his speech from the podium, it was this same Kersey Antia who
started shouting derogatory words to the Dasturji Saheb! Was he a
hooligan then? This time, he got a dose of his own medicine from those
who came to listen to him.

Besides, the 'hooligan' community in North America (there are many
polite and civil ones too) has always treated speakers who hold
traditional views with contempt. Shall we say the entire heterodox
community in North America is full of 'hooligans'? In North America ,
opposition has not been amicably tolerated. Often, in the past,
individuals have written their views in the FEZANA Journal as to how
these Congresses held and supported mainly the one sided view, the
heterodox view!

These are facts.

Here, on February 2, 2008, when Kersey Antia was delivering his
speech, the traditionalists did not disrupt his talk! In fact, when he
was speaking, everyone clapped when he correctly said that in the
Gathas, Ha 30, the choice is between the two Paths! After stating
this, he went directly into propagating 'acceptance'/conversion! It is
only when the questions were not being addressed that those who wanted
to ask about the choice between the two Paths as opposed to the choice
between the two religions ('acceptance'/conversion), and the refusal
to answer these, that some in the audience started shouting that the
questions must be answered, as promised at the start of the speech.

It was then that Antia was visibly shaken. Also, no one was thrown
out!!! People who wanted to ask questions themselves got up and left
because they did not want to see the video promoting conversion.

So, in the end, I would say that Kersey Antia got a dose of his own
medicine for himself behaving like a hooligan with a Dasturji at
Houston , in the past! And, no one was held, taken into custody as
falsely reported. Even the trustees of ARZ/AIMZ, Dr. Grant, Mr.
Jeejeebhoy, Mrs. Meher Amarsee and the Guest Speaker, Mr. DaCunha left
as soon as the question-answer session was over! And, it took 15
police to escort on so-called "Vada Dastur", Kersey Antia to his car?
This is unbelievable!

Sincerely,

Pervin J Mistry.

Salgrehs today on Behram roj, Sherevar mah of YZ 1377 (Tues, 5 Feb)

From: Tehemton B. Adenwalla
Date: Feb 5, 2008 6:23 AM
Subject: Salgrehs today on Behram roj, Sherevar mah of YZ 1377 (Tues, 5 Feb)
To: TZML <TraditionalZarathushtris@yahoogroups.com>

Baname Khuda!

Dear Zarathushti friends,
today is Behram roj, the month is Sherevar and the year YZ 1377.

We have the Salgrehs of these agiaries:

Seth Nusservanji Hirji Karani Adarian at Cusrow Baug, Colaba, Mumbai.

This adarian was consecrated in the year YZ 1216 (1847) and is 161
years old today.

Lady Avabai Jamshedji Jeejebhoy Adarian, Malesar, Navsari

This adarian was consecrated in the year YZ 1222 (1853) and is 155
years old today.

Seth Nusservanji Ratanji Tata Adarian, Bandra, Mumbai

This adarian was consecrated in the year YZ 1253 (1884) and is 123
years old today.

If you are visiting any of these salgreh functions, do send us a report.

Last year, Mr Behram Dhabhar attended the Karani Agiary (Cusrow Baug)
celebrations and mentioned that there was a jashan in the Haavan geh,
followed by a speech of Dasturji Kotwal recited by Ervad Aspandiar
Dadachangi. The Vada Dasturjis - Dasturji Kotwal, Dasturji Peshotan
Mirza and Dasturji Jamaspasa were also present.

So there it is in a nutshell - Salgreh functons are a good chance to
charge one's spiritual batteries. The more we attend, the better for
the Agiary, for the community spirit and for ourselves.

Sincerely

Tehemton B. Adenwalla